Star Trek XI news, rumors, info and downloads
TOS-R Screenshots/Video
“And The Children Shall Lead” Screenshots & Video
SFX Video
(WMV)
New and Old
Assuming orbit of Triacus
In orbit of Triacus
Triacus on the viewscreen
Breaking orbit
Zipping along to Marcus XII
Enroute to Marcus XII
Changing course back to Starbase 4
Assorted
Kirk posing with the UFP flag
Tommy and Mary do their best ‘Children of the Corn’ looks
More of the Enterprise breaking orbit sequence
Kirk realizes that he just beamed two redshirts out into space
Calling the "Friendly Angel"
Sulu’s Knives
Kirk posing with the UFP flag
Tommy and Mary do their best ‘Children of the Corn’ looks
More of the Enterprise breaking orbit sequence
Kirk realizes that he just beamed two redshirts out into space
Calling the "Friendly Angel"
Sulu’s Knives
Uhura aged and diseased
Kirk… losing… command…
The true face of Gorgan
Discussion
117 comments for ““And The Children Shall Lead” Screenshots & Video”
Post a comment
Categories
Recent Comments
- Serena on Paradise Syndrome Remastered Preview
- Vinnie Larner on Review: The Tholian Web Remastered
- Apallilky on Recasting…does it work?
- InnogNeagoDed on Recasting…does it work?
- margohelp on Recasting…does it work?
Most Emailed
- N/A
© 2007 TrekHQ. 
I hope they don’t try to recast Gorgon in any movies.
I think this will be the first remastered show I’ll not bother to watch. No effects worth tuning in for, I’ll check back for Matt’s video later.
Yeah, this one is less in need of remastering than regret, remorse, and repentance.
Wait, they didn’t replace the knives in Sulu’s hallucination? What’s up with that?!
I hope Abrams casts William Shatner as the New Gorgan in Star Trek XI!
They didn’t replace the knives??? Thats odd…
#4 — Nope and if you look you can tell, since CBS-D has been changing the starfield to be more realistic, when Sulu starts hallucinating the starfield becomes the larger brighter globs from the original version, thanks to the daggers it isn’t very noticeable, but if you look you can see it.
Worst…episode…ever….
This is why you should never have children on board a Starship.
> “Kirk… loosing… command”
(sp) “Losing”
I guess you could say that his grip on command was loosened …
#10 — LOL, thanks, that’s a word I always add an extra ‘o’ to, dunno why
why does EVERYBODY nowadays seem to spell “losing” as “loosing”…?
I must read it a hundred times a day on the ‘net?
What the..?!?!?
It’s NOT that tricky a word!
oh yeah, the “E” shots this week looked EXCELLENT!
It would have been fascinating if Nichelle had re-done her old age make up for this one.
OK, this is bizarre.
I’ve been watching Star Trek for more than 30 years. “And the Children Shall Lead” has always, *always*, been at the bottom of my list. Awful, terrible, appallingly bad episode. So bad that I haven’t watched it in decades.
And I just watched it. And it’s not that bad. It’s not that good, either, but it’s no worse than mediocre. And it had some genuinely creepy moments, and … the scene at the end with the kids watching home movies actually got to me.
Something’s wrong. I feel like I’m hallucinating. Is there a kid pounding his fist in the air somewhere behind me?
There’s nothing wrong with you Cranston,
the episode isn’t nearly as bad as some would have you believe.
It wouldn’t win any Emmy or Hugo awards but, at the absolute minimum, it is yet another example of watching the wonderful dynamics play out between all of these wonderful characters, witnessing their camraderie and professionalism in the face of adversity.
This episode as a whole is no worse than that TNG episode that had the “portal” on it.
16. Josh T.
I don’t remember that episode with the portal. Could be because I don’t remember hardly any specific episode of that series.
16 — Josh
You’ll have to refresh my memory on the “portal” ep. I did a Google search…is is that awful “The Last Outpost” one that first showed us what a fearsome threat the Ferengi were?
And yes, there are many (nay, even dozens) of latter-day Trek episodes that are worse than ATCSL, if only because there are so friggin’ many episodes out there.
And re: the cameraderie/professionalism. One detail that I really liked was when the kids were confounding everyone’s perception and making Kirk’s words sound like gibberish, we saw classic professional competent Spock. Without words or exposition, we see the following rapid progression: Spock hears Kirk spouting gibberish, concludes that his mind’s being screwed around with, takes a moment to assert good old Vulcan mental discipline to beat it, confirms that he’s back in control, and promptly leads Kirk off the bridge. Nice.
Making fun of this episode is sort of like shooting fish in a barrel… er, tribbles in a Jeffries Tube.
Hollywood lawyer painted green and wearing a shower curtain. What more needs to be said?
But really, the basic premise isn’t that bad for a Trek episode: Alien energy being causes a Jonestown-style mass suicide, and brainwashes children to be its minions. Just the actor and the bad costume and special effect of the creature itself is what really tips this into SPOCK’S BRAIN territory.
I do have to wonder: Wouldn’t Sulu’s daggers of the mind be scarier if they were coming towards the ship pointy-end first?
Two little factoids that the Trek wiki pointed out:
* Kirk calls the creature a Gorgan, even though the kids never tell its name, and the creature never gives its name. Weird!
* At the end of the episode, Kirk sets a course for Starbase 4, apparently completely forgetting that there are still two stranded redshirts back on the planet.
I’d like to see a Trek novel tell their story, like a Trek-version of ROSENCRANTZ & GUILDENSTERN ARE DEAD.
Used to hate this episode, now I like it. As a kid, I did not think there was enough action. Now, I appreciate the ideas. Disappointed to hear they did not redigitize Sulu’s knives. They could have inserted a new sequence with the present day Nichelle Nichols into the comm console, too — LOL. One little quibble — when the security team was beamed down into empty space and Kirk and Spock realized it, there was time to beam them back safely to the ship. Mammals can live in a vacuum for about 30 seconds. As you recall, Dave Bowman did this in “2001″. Surely, they would have know about this in the 23rd Century. (OK, I’ll stop calling you Shirley now.)
What I have found is that episodes I did not like as kid, I like now. Conversely, episodes I liked as a kid I don’t like as much now or dislike. As I stated previously, back then I wanted more action and less talk. Now I appreciated the discussion of ideas or the presentation of them. This phenomenon usually occures between 2nd and 3rd season shows. In general, there were too many Earth parallel stories in the 2nd Season — Romans, Nazis, Gangsters. Now I like “The Empath” and I am not so crazy about “The Immunity Syndrome”. Now I like “In Truth Is There No Beauty”, not as enamored with “A Piece of the Action”. One exception — I thought “The Enterprise Incident” was cool as kid, now I find it to be rather improbable — the female Romulan commander just bowls over for Spock two minutes after meeting him and gets distracted long enough to let the Federation steal one its top secrets. I also am not sure why they had to rush the Klingon ship model into service in the series instead of using the serviceable Romulan model of the 1st Season. As Worf once noted the Romulan think the Klingons are “a waste of skin”. I still dislike:
* “the Paradise Syndrome” — too many stupid things happening: why didn’t the Enterprise deflect the asteroid first and then visit the planet? If they had to visit the planet first, when Kirk first went missing why didn’t they leave a search party behind and go deflect the asteroid? I could go on.
*”The Turnabout Intruder” — what a terrible way to end the series. (they did not know that at the time, 2 final episodes were canceled). Kirk would have been relieved as soon as the erratic behavior starting occuring.
“The Lights of Zetar” — Scotty in a love story, it was painful. Then the decompression chamber drove the aliens away — geez. Memory Alpha — didn’t they invent the subspace internet by the 23rd Century? Even back in 1969 they had something called “a backup tape”. (I am entending the index and middle fingers of both hands and curling them as I say ” a backup tape”.)
Nothing on the thasian ship? No caps?
Humm, Two red shirts left on some planet by themselves….
PLANET OF THE RED SHIRTS !
Ya’ blew it up, ya’ maniacs, darn ya’, darn ya’ all ta’ heck !
- W -
* Still better then MANOS : The Hands Of Fate *
Hey CBS, as Kirk said, “Will somebody kindly tell me what happen to the stars!” If I may be so bold. Tell the Great Bird of the Galaxy to hit the light switch. Nice UFP banner in this ep.
True story-
I warned my wife about this one but asked her to watch it with me because she loves kids. Her comment, as soon as the show ended was: “if you ever make me watch that episode again, I’ll divorce you!!!!” No LIE!
Why change the screen effect of Sulu and his knives? They always looked fine and pretty cool to me. Besides, change a few space/ship shots and forget the rest. Save the money and time for better episodes (like the other 78/79-counting “The Cage”)!!!!!!
I hate CGI, are we done yet?
Is the Gorgon’s voice different? Or Am I just watching it w/a good sound
system this time? He had the same booming bass, but it sounded overlaid
on a chorus of children, speaking the exact same lines?
Is that new?
The good thing about this episode is that after the hour or so you spend watching it..it’s over.
The Next Generation Episode “The Bonding” covers similar if not identical subject matter with far more emotional depth, impact, and seriousness.
I thought the kids in “Miri” were way more annoying than the kids in this episode.
#7:
I saw that the starfield looked old right away. To me, it was very noticeable. It had no depth.
I thought the kids in this episode were way more annoying than the kids in “Miriâ€.
Mainly just that red-haired kid.
“Miri” is just a far better-done episode despite the presence of some annoying kids…this one’s just silly.
#15 & 16
I watched the episode last night (Midnight, KWGN Denver) for the first time in years - - with an open mind. I agree, this segment is not a bad as I “felt” it had been. The main characters are solid, everyone gets a little something to do (especially Nurse Chapel), but in particular Mr. Shatner is strong - - “The Time has come to See the World as it is”.
Now don’t get me wrong this episode will always rank near last - - but the very bottom should be fought for by “The Way to Eden” (James Doohan’s pick) and “Spock’s Brain”.
Note - Remember “Freeman” (Paul Baxley) from “The Trouble With Tribbles”? Returning to aid Mr. Chekov in detaining Kirk and Spock. Now he sports a Red Uniform instead of the Gold he wore for “Tribbles”.
The Redshirts were beamed into open space. They were not orbiting the planet at that time.
#32 Most here are referring to “The Planet Security Team” on duty at the time on the Planet’s surface that were to be brought “up”. The two Guards that transportered down to relieve them were killed.
I can’t believe they didn’t change the mirror on the bridge panel effect, COME ON! That was so easy to fix and looked so terrible. Sweet Baby Jesus I’m starting to think CBS-D isn’t even watching the episode, they are just looking for space shots.
Look I forgave the James R Kirk thing because there were fifty other shots that needed done, but here? You had like ten shots, most viewscreen shots with stars.
Someday, someone is going to do this project right. Let the nitpickers go though the episodes and show them what exactly is wrong, and then fix all of that. I don’t know what episode they are about to begin working on, but seriously guys call me and I’ll give you the breakdown on what needs fixed, I’ll do it for free!
I now know they won’t fix Kirk’s shirt in Charlie X, won’t fix McCoy in the sickbay, instead of the transporter room in “Mudd’s Women” and they didn’t fix his arm with/without a sleeve in “The Immunity Syndrome”. They are really starting to get under my skin.
Somehow we have to get it through to CBS that we would be happy with twenty episodes a year, if they were done right, at this point, I won’t even bother to download the updated DVD’s let alone buy them… but I’m not bitter.
FredCFO - there have been two stories floating around over the years as to why they used the Klingon model and not the BOP. One story is that it was purely mercenary - they wanted to show off the new ship design and boost its model kit sales. The other story is that by then they didn’t have the original model anymore, because Desilu had settled a grievance with a local union by giving Chang the model back instead of paying him for it (Chang was non-union, and the guild didn’t like that Desilu were commissioning him to do original work). Chang then supposedly took the model home and destroyed it in a fit of pique. Whichever story you believe though, we do know that the BOP model disappeared at some point, and it’s still missing to this day. The only question is when exactly it activated its cloaking device and vanished - 40 years ago, or sometime after the show’s cancellation?
#35: I read that the Klingon ship model was made by the AMT model shop. Wouldn’t that be a problem, since those model makers would’t be members of the movie union?
#34: Since you’ve graciously agreed to “allow” CBS-D to remaster only twenty episodes per year, I’m sure you’ll be willing to pay the staff salaries for the additional year or two it will take to complete the project.
This could have been a great episode if they’d have lit-up the hanger bay lights on the tail.
Lame.. No enhanced Sulu knives. Ginger kids creep out both Cartman and Lord Garth. Marta will not dance this week
Why is Tommy Starns dressed to go swimming… in 1918??
This episode sucked the air out of the room. I guess they didn’t bother to replace Sulu’s daggers for the same reason the effects team didn’t really bother to make the daggers look like more than a loop of bad fx in the first place. They KNEW this episode chomped choice chunks of cheetah chum.
Triacus is prettier, though. But then again… if it’s a lovely world with lots of water, why did the Federation set up its science team in the seemingly only hellhole on the planet?
OK — I will not defend much about this episode, but I see there are defenders. It’s kind of a “Lord, I wish they’d fire that guy… Aw, isn’t awful they fired that guy” mentality. Or maybe a bad day at Trek is better than a good day at CSI.
The episode doesn’t suck only because of Melvin Belli and his shower curtain. It sucks because you’ve got a bunch of kids with maybe one talented one in the bunch. (I like Pamelyn Ferdin if only because she’s the original voice of Lucy Van Pelt and helps kack off Clint Eastwood in Beguiled.) The episode also bogs down in endless psycho-babble about the emotional state of the kids. (This meaningless Freud wannabeeism is a precursor to the use of technobabble to fill thin Voyager scripts.) Lastly, this episode bites because it’s dull. The music is more whiny than eerie and the tension never gets above a simmer.
The basic premise is sound. I’ll give them that. It has the same ’seduced innocence’ of children that makes Village of the Damned (original not Kirsti’s remake) watchable. But, the director here wasn’t interested in much beyond his paycheck. His work is heavy-handed without offering anything interesting.
IMHO, of course.
But, I’m the same guy who loves “Spock’s Brain.” Bring on the go-go booted alienettes, baby!
I’m pissed off because they didn’t have those barrell rolling Ginsu knives I wanted! Damn…same old FX there!
Lame! That’s the only reason I tuned in…to see the Ginsus!
TTM
If you separate the implementation from the concept, this is an illuminating episode.
The basic premise is paralleled to the Cultural Revolution then being effected in the late 1960s. Obviously, ATCSL is a conservative take on the Revolution, and I posit that as the main reason it is disliked by the predominantly Leftist Star Trek fan base.
Gorgon is of course a Bolshevik, who leads his followers with seeming utopian promises that mask his ulterior motives of power and conquest.
Preying on the innocent and gullible is the primary mark of Marxist regimes, particularly as it happened in the US where armed revolution was impractical.
There are several lines that obviate the episode’s Christian cultural matrix as well. The name of the episode, and the premise itself, are taken from both Old and New Testament escatology that prophesize abdication of social leadership to women and children, portrayed here by the willful blindness of the evil they help perpetrate. Also, “Truth” and “Light” figure as the means to destroy Evil and its ugly deceptions.
The pormise of a never-ending childhood of ice cream and play is powerful, and little different from our own self-indulgent age where sin no longer exists, former wrongs are now rights, and those who protest are systematically purged from society. Indeed, many have noted how our culture is, essentially, adolescent and divorced from the responsibilities of adulthood. It is a lie wherein the “dream” takes the palce of the reality of flesh-and-blood and thus dissent and criticism must be met with deadly force, lest the illusion fail and those in power be threatened.
(Recall that Lucifer, the falled angel who was “Bearer of Light” was a deceiver, a seducer, and one who excelled in expliting the innocent virtues of the unwary as a means to control them.)
Placed back into context of the 1960s counter-culture, we see how Gorgon’s agents seek to acquire effective control over the levers of power — impersonating Star Fleet Command and issuing arrest warrants, deploying disinformation via the command information systems, unknowingly turning the crews respect of authority and duty to the survival of the ship against their own best interests. Only Kirk and Spock, through their superior sense of duty and self-control reassert themselves successfully. That is why they are the ship’s command-grade officers!
Always bittersweet are the now quaint anachronisms of a lost age, “The Before Time”. Tommy introduces his playmates to the adults per Emily Post. “Ring Around the Rosey”, a chant now lost to children and an ancient testamony to both Faith and Plague. The idea that adults should command children to their best interests, not children commanding adults according to selfish interests.
All these are lost in the early 20th Century as we really do allow women and children to lead us. The results are at once more subtle than gigantic space knives but more dangerous. Childish indulgence and gullibility, when connected to the levers of power, are lethal to a society whether on Triacus — or Earth of 2007.
Thus, And the Children Shall Lead will be despised by most, but recognized by a remnant of those who still remember The Before Times. Ed Lakso, born in 1962 and thus sufficiently mature to recognize the true nature of the struggle, could not foresee how many millions the Gorgon would seduce here on Terra Firma, nor how eargerly they would join him.
Make that “21st Century” and “born in 1932″.
#41 “this episode chomped choice chunks of cheetah chum”.
Nice alliteration in condemning this “turd in space” episode!
@#20 FredCFO:
“One little quibble — when the security team was beamed down into empty space and Kirk and Spock realized it, there was time to beam them back safely to the ship.”
I would say that was a case of incompetence. The Transporter Chief should always verify to where s/he is beaming people. That Spock figured out the problem so quickly means that the verification procedure is quick and easy. Also, the relief team should be beamed down first to properly relieve the current security team. Otherwise you have no security detail on the planet for a few moments. If something is worth “securing” with a security team, then do things in the correct order, for Kirk’s sake!
Additionally, the Enterprise was traveling at warp speed at the time the hapless redshirts were transported. I would think that being beamed off the ship and suddenly decelerating from superluminal speed would shred one to pieces. There’s nothing to rescue.
This incident should never have happened–unless the Transporter Chief was under the children’s control. With all the syndication cuts, who knows… Did I overanalyze this or what?
Whatever became of that Sigma Draconis ship miniature from Spock’s Brain? Is it serving as a paper weight in Greg Gein’s home these days? Or does Majel own it? I’ve never seen any photos of it…
Curt of Star Trek History.com could probably find some pics of it…
Enquiring minds want to know!
Anyway, I guess CBS-D will make it all organic looking with glowing orange or blue panels on the fins…
They should add some kind of glowing effect to that Teacher helmet too…something to jazz up the effect. That would be cool. Get rid of that blue cyclorama and add some big glaciers/mountains on the horizon.
Oh…here’s a question: Sigma Draconis VI was supposedly glaciated, yet they beam down in their standard uniforms. Seems like they would need some heavy duty jackets like they wore in Star Trek II at the very least.
Where’s the snow? I think they should add some CGI snow to the above ground scenes…
Speaking of Sigma Draconis…according to the Star Trek Star Maps book that is now out, the Morgs and Eyemorgs formed a Congress after Kirk left. Oh…and it also says their entry into the Federation is contingent upon development of warp drive. HUH?? They already had more advanced warp propulsion than Starfleet to hear Scotty tell it…
All they would need to do is put on the teacher helmet and start building some more ships. Seems like instant entry into the Federation to me. Any culture that has the technology to remove and replace brains should be a shoo-in anyway. Except the men are stupid…oh well…
LMAO!!!
TTM
Nice analysis, OTF! I always enjoy reading your posts.
TTM
#32, Spocks Brain and Way to Eden should not be mentioned in the same sentence. WTE is in the same calibur as the And the Children turd. Spock’s Brain was a case of poor execution of an interesting concept.
Way to Eden is terrible but so is PLATO’S STEPCHILDREN…which is the big white elephant on the bridge that nobody here wants to talk about. It gets elevated for having the “first interracial kiss” but if it weren’t for that it would be just as stinky a turd as WTE or ATCHL.
You know it’s true.
Kirk acting like a horse? “Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum”??
Gimme a break.
Awful. God-awful.
TTM
I know rational thought is wasted on an episode like this, but I suppose Kirk, Spock and McCoy buried the bodies and set up the tombstones all by themselves. It sure seems that way from the show and the way it is presented. It would have made more sense just to beam the bodies up to the ship. More goofiness from a typical third season dumbed down show which is just more bad than most.
#20… re: surviving in a vacuum…
In both “2001″ and “Event Horizon,” the people exposed to vaccum were prepared. But an instant decompression like the unprepared mis-beamed security guard experienced would have resulted in a messy instant death. They would have beamed back a corpse with lungs out of the mouth and other nasty things, most likely.
I pretty much can stomach five minutes than turning the channel with this waste of film. Well I wasn’t surprised I did not miss much. This pretty much goes with Platos Stephildren ,Spock’s Brain, and Way to Eden bad. Most of the Third Season was mediocre at best. Thier are some good ones….
Not only that the kids are obnoxious but everyone’s character seems completely off. Nothing remastered can fix that. There’s no Science fiction element that challenges the human condition at all.
Because there is no episode called “And the Chidren Shall Lead,” and there never was such an episode called “And the Children Shall Lead,” I can only assume that there is some kind of malevolent entity with mind-controlling powers making you all see and believe that there is such an episode. I can see, however, that such a false belief in the existence of such an episode is causing strong negative feelings (as in how many people hate it, or how a few disagree and kind of like the episode) as reflected in the above posts. I therefore speculate that this mind-controlling entity has some hidden agenda in causing such antipathy. But such an entity would certainly NOT have the name Gorgan,since there is no such being, either in reality or in Star Trek.
And there is no episode, and never was, called “And the Children Shall Lead.”
45 Great observation/social commentary, Old Timey Fan.
There also was never ever anything called - The Star Wars Holiday Special -
* Waves hands like Obi-Wan *
It’s the truth and you know it is.
- W -
* Who still thinks that this episode isn’t as bad as MANOS *
#51, “Spocks Brain and Way to Eden should not be mentioned in the same sentence.”
Throughout my lifetime the fans have mentioned them both as among the poorest and I agree. . . my contention stands. I agree with you that “Spock’s Brain” was an interesting concept (written by Gene Coon [Lee Cronin] no less - rumored to be originally written as a comedy episode). Excluding an excellent bridge interaction scene between Kirk, Sulu, Chekov and Uhura deciding which course to set this one is just painful to watch.
One thing that gets me though, in the grading of the remaster, I wonder if some are voting for the script itself, rather than the remastering job. For me, the remastering falls between an A-B. The story falls to an F (or below).
#45- Interesting observations.
On the technical end, two (ONLY two) things continue to bug me about the E: Hangar door lights and nacelle ball size.
I had to fast fwd through the ep. (”You know how to do that!”) Too painful!!
Notice the guy’s hairstyles getting more “70’s” looking.
Gives us an idea of what Phase II would have looked like.
Thankfully, with TMP, the overall look of hair and clothing was so neutral that you’d never know it was made in 1979.
Shatner could play Gorgon in the remake. Shatnervision has a video of him in his office with a blowflex. But he’s not using it enought on the Shat tummy. And I’m a big fan but still feel compelled to say that.
Hey Matt,
Can we get some comparison shots of the Gorgon’s deterioration? According to StarTrek.com, CBS-D enhanced it. As far as I could tell, they punched up the colors a bit, but not much else …
Why are the stars so dark in the remastered episodes? Maybe it’s more realistic, but it’s not as atmospheric or interesting to look at. Turn up the brightness on the stars!
#24 at least she got all the way through…i tried to get my wife to set down and watch the movie “Momento” a few years ago…10 minutes…..10 minutes and she bolted saying the movie was retarded because the guy should have a better system of writing things down so he knows whats going on.
You know, you guys lowered the bar of my expectations for this episode so low that I almost enjoyed watching it. Well, maybe “enjoyed” isn’t the right word… It didn’t disgust me as much as I expected to be.
I am kind of bummed that Sulu’s Space Knives weren’t CGed to look more, I don’t know, dangerous/real/pointy. I mean, Sulu was wigging out man, and it looked like the E was just clipping through these swords faced the wrong way around. Besides, what kind of fear is that?! “Ooo, giant space knives, my worst fear!” The episode could have stood some more fear exposure leading to character development, that might have made it a better episode. Or made it more like The Final Frontier.
Nevermind.
Darkness debate once again returns: I’ll say it again, when it IS on HD, it will look much brighter and much better. Heck, the starts look better even on iTunes. Doesn’t matter if we are talking stars, ship exterior or interior, ALL will be brighter.
Well, the music is always very good for this episode.
Re: darkness. I tried an experiment. I watched Star Trek Remastered on my HDTV on the digital channel. And then I flipped over the analog channel that is also broadcasting the same Trek broadcast. It’s brighter on the analog channel, on a par with the current Standard Def DVD’s.
#62 — Nothing about Gorgan was enhanced, what they showed on Star Trek.com was simply a comparison about how much better the new 1080p Hi-Def film transfer looked over the old DVD version.
CBS-D… great job this week, the ship looks better and better and the angles of the ship look great…very feature film quality. Many people are enjoying the lower angles of the ship which add scale and are more flattering than the shots from behind and above.
Great work!!
Honest, I just watched this episode of Fox and don’t know why everyone is ragging on it so much. The kids are a little annoying but the story is solid and it ticks along nicely - my kids liked it, and CBS did a tidy job on what little they had to do …..
In my post, I meant to say stars, not starts. Anyway, this episode is pretty sad overall. I was ticked off that the gawd awful editing company cut out the “get out of here or we’ll kill ya!” line by Scotty!
This was an easy one for CBS-D. Couple of orbit shots, planet shots, space shots and call it a day!
What’s next ? All Our Yesterdays, pretty solid episode and some wonderful Spock/McCoy arguments and I mmust Mariette Hartley looked rather nice in skins.
-csâ„¢
After all the hatred displayed towards this episode, I expected it to be the worst episode of … well, basically anything. But I didn’t find it THAT bad. It just seemed like an average Trek episode. People say that the story is what made it bad, but if you replaced the children with beautiful women, I think your opinion would change (if you’re a guy, I mean).
So, it’s not the story. It’s the children. If you hate children, you’ll hate this episode.
I still find the children in “Miri” more annoying. In this episode, the kids were being influenced by an alien entity. When the entity went away, the kids weren’t annoying anymore. So what was the excuse for the “Miri” kids?
OF GODS AND MEN has been delayed….no showing tonight but an apology from BALOK and the 1st 3 minutes,,,have fun
#73 “If you hate children, you’ll hate this episode”.
This reminds me of the famous comedian W.C. Fields, when he was asked, “how do you like children, Mr. Fields?” He replied, “well done!”
This was a far better episode than most here gave it credit fo before it aired, …and the kids were not fake like, like there were in Miri…they emoted a mind controlling genuiness under The Gorgon’s control that I still find frightening all these years later.
It deserves a better reputation than many have it given in the press.
#45:
Great post!
And well put…parallels between the seduction of the kids by Gorgan and the seduction of kids today by agents of personal irresponsibility and moral relativism are striking, to say the least.
There were some nasty episodes in the third season…………
This is one of the worst, next to “Spock’s Brain”….
The best review of this worst of episodes is at the Agony Booth site:
http://www.agonybooth.com/extras/trek/and_the_children/
#45 That is the best description of the conceptual essence of this episode I’ve ever read. I enjoyed it very much, you gave meaning to a very superficial episode. I’ll never look at it the same again. …That is, if I ever do look at it again…
Do we really have to endure the crappy shows from the “Turd Season”?
lol #81…
Tell me, #81, must we have ALWAYS to endure your negative posts about any shows from the third season???
Cant wait for “Whom God’s Destroy”, and “Turnabout Intruder” with William Shatner as the God Kirk and his over the top, but always fun and richly rewarding performances!
“The Day of The Dove”.. too, with Michael Ansara as the great Kang is outstanding!
#82 “must we have ALWAYS to endure your negative posts”
No, on the contrary, take a break from all of this and invest your time and money in, oh I don’t know, maybe some GRAMMAR lessons?
ATTENTION #83!!!!!!!!!!
….”it’s just a tv show damn it!!!…..”
And btw “ATCSL” was a TRULY GREAT episode, and your INTOXICATED reviews are the turdy ones..
#83……you really need to control your emotions…they will be your undoing….
So just chill out …just smoke your weed and drink your colt 45 malt liquor, then develop a sense of humour, we grow tired of your foolishness, but forgive you as we must consider the source from whence it came….you!
http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/children/tommy_mary.jpg
#84″just smoke your weed and drink your colt 45 malt liquor”
Well, it would seem I’ve struck a nerve and, hey, I don’t pick on YOUR hobbies! As to your weak arguments, I think the best response is to paraphrase Winston Churchill when I say, “I may be drunk, Shaye, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be wrong!”
Shots from above and from the rear are GREAT… if done well.
Sorry #69 Bobby, but some of those ORIGINAL “compositions” were some of my favourites. However, CBS has indeed done some fine work on their “from below” shots
# 83 and your attitude will still be ugly and nasty and it is YOU rather who you could not be more wrong if you tried, along w/your bonus hangover…btw I do not indulge in drug or drink but understand the nature of the beast…I see in you..or ..”we have no devil kirk but understand his habits.” to paraphrase Kang; from “Day of The Dove..”
Peace or war?
“We …can…admit that we…are killers…but we wont kill today!..its as simple as that!” Kirk in “A Taste of Aramgeddon”
Pleaseplay nice in this sand box, and share your toys, okay?
Old Timey Fan, wonderful analysis of this episode and how it relates to modern society.
I had the very same reaction upon hearing the Gorgan’s “manifesto.” It sounded a lot like what’s currently happening with today’s Nancy Pelosi Democrats and the mainstream media and how they are handling events like the Iraq War, the US District Attorney “controversy,” and other foreign & domestic policies. When the general public gets all their information from media, who all get their headlines from one source (namely the Associated Press and the New York Times), it’s very easy for our perceptions of “the truth” to become manipulated or distorted for ideological purposes.
Forgive me for sounding partisan, but I was quite surprised by the similarities I saw…
#89 you are being republican/fox network partisan…and it sounds as though you are using a review from a viewer here to vent your anger at the democrats for having the courage to stand up to the Gorgan’s in power, ie, Bush & Cheney; the biggest liars your country has ever had in office.
just my non partisan opinion…
lol
I thought this episode was ok, not great but there are far worse like Spocks Brain or I, Mudd. Surely the nadir of TOS.
FYI for those who live in the SF/Bay Area…Ch. 44 again decided to move the remastered airings to a truly terrible timslot: 2AM on Sunday mornings (late Saturday night if you want to think of it that way).
What’s on at 11PM on Saturday now (the old timeslot)? Why it’s “American Idol: Rewind”!
Ugh! Further proof that America is getting dumber all of the time…:(
#88+90 Shaye
Hey, I like the flavour of your posts. There’s a certain whimsy and humour to it all that belies your rebuttals. “Share your toys”, what a novel concept! I’m slapping my knee repeatedly in reaction! Keep up the good work!
CBS-D really dropped the ball on the space knives. I’ve been watching Trek since the mid 70’s; & I never understood why Sulu, a master swordsman, was afraid of knives destroying the ship. in reality they would’ve just bounced off the hull as the big E was warping through space. I would’ve like to have seen some digital lightning, or something a little scarier emitting from the knives; kinda like a lightsaber making contact with another lightsaber. Sing it with me - “Snap, crackle, pop, that’s scary.”
Re: #45 That 1918 bathing suit comment was dead on, & hilarious!
Like a tooth canal, the best thing you can say about this episode is, “At least it’s over. We’ve got that pain behind us now.”
it’s no wonder Uhua was so freaked out seeing herself old, shes so vain she’s got a mirror at her station so she can see herself every second. Thats all I can think about now when I see this episode.
I prefer the original ship to the CGI ship. I prefer the grainy look to the cleaner look.
I didn’t love this episode as a kid, but I like it now. I liked the little girl when I was a little boy. (Think she played Felix Unger’s daughter once too.) The Gorgon was terrible. What kid would want to be friends with that jerk? He didn’t do anything, and if exhibited your true emotions he would get all blotchy and disappear? And how did the kids learn the chant to call him in the first place? And the chant was silly. And they didn’t even have to say it? All you needed was a recording and the Gorgon was fooled into appearing? WHAT???
Paul,
Chicks often break out a mirror to fix their make-up. You didn’t always see a mirror there, just that particular day. She might have had a hot date that night.
Gads, here we go with political BS again! Knock it off!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks #93!
Michael I knew you were my friend deep down inside!
We…Reach!…(and we are NOT herbert!)
Shaye, I suspect you’re Canadian…would that be right?
Why…yes, Say, how did you guess?..the matter of fact is I am from New Scotland!, (Nova Scotia) by way of (my birthplace) New Zealand…it is confusing, however God save the Queen …and us all.
Now, that’s interesting! I was born in Scotland, but was raised in Toronto, where I now live. I personally agree with your Bush comments, just so you know…
#45 (Old Timey):
> There are several lines that obviate
> the episode’s Christian cultural matrix
“Obviate”. What an annoying word. It obviously sounds like,
but actually doesn’t mean “to make something obvious”.
I’m sure it will acquire (indeed it is acquiring) that meaning
through popular misuse. But for now, the dictionary still says
it means ‘to prevent or avoid something’, or ‘to make something
unnecessary’. http://m-w.com/dictionary/obviate
(In older usage it meant ‘to remove or clear something
out of the way’; such as an obstacle, difficulty, or objection.)
Obviously (no pun intended), you didn’t mean to say that some lines
in the episode “avoid”, “prevent”, “remove”, or “make unnecessary”
the episode’s Christian references. No, obviously you meant that
they are “made obvious”; but that’s not what “obviate” means –
unless you’re a Language Leftist who favors the pop misusage. ;-.
I Never thought I’d see myself writing this, but Syndication Cuts actually helped this ep, it was still a dog but much less so.
92 A different “Jon”.
How can you tell the difference?…I’m the good looking one.
#105 it was not a dog of an episode, maybe you just hate children in any form on Star Trek?…
Personaly I’d rated it a B due to the horrid cuts..otherwise it would be an A+ EPISODE …right next to Doomsday Machine and City on the Edge of Forever….and the dog faced boy!
lol
#60 Phase II probably would have had the same hairstyles, etc as ST:TMP….
Dear Anthony,
Where is the review to ATCSL?
thank you, trek friend!
I never see Assignment:Earth listed as a bottom dweller. It is just above Spocks Brain on my never want to see list and a few below this not quite as abysmal episode. “We went back in time to see just how humanity survived”. UGH!! Time travel and messing around with the time lines….GRAACKK!! First Contact was ruined by that (so Riker and Gordi from the future rode in the Phoenix…I’m sure that was in the history texts at Kirk’s academy).
Let’s see CBS-D deal with that peice of space junk…
I was a little surprised that they didn’t “upgrade” Sulu’s vision of the swords, but it’s OK. There’s nothing wrong with the original. I just always thought the blades should be pointing *toward* Sulu, not hilt first.
111:
Cochrane could have been required to take a oath of secrecy along with his ground crew to NEVER reveal how they were “helped” to launch the Phoenix and change history.
Believe me, secrecy oaths have been required of people in the military and civilians who work in the military, not to mention local gentry who have stumbled onto “classified” situations/material. So it is possible too for First Contact.
That said, we can continue to enjoy the last great Star Trek film before the decline and fall of the film franchise…may it be reborn with the next film!
^104
Thanks for the Grammar Citation
I plead guilty as charged and throw myself on the mercy of the court. I ask that my sentencing bear in mind my depleted mental condition after a long day building Hyperion consolidation systems!!!!
^80 Tomas Jensen
My wife’s mother’s maiden name is Jensen, lol!
I doubt I’ll want to watch it again anytime soon, too. But my opinion has changed markedly since fatherhood. Thoughts of your own children and the world they inhabit tend to clarify one’s perceptions. Except for shower curtain choir robes and freckle-faced carrot tops that need a good spanking!
^89 Strike Falcon
As a recovering GOPer, I see the same tactics used by both major parties whose goal really is to maintain power and control for themselves and their minions. To that extent, the lessons of ATCSL are timeless because human nature does not change. Of particular interest to me is modern, scientific propaganda and the willing suspension of disbelief in our virtual age. It is quite easy to “read from the script” because evidence to the contrary is hidden or withheld. This was illustrated in the episdoe by the effect of the video on the children’s suppressed grief.
Are we any better fourty years after this idea was (poorly!) put to screen? I think not. If anything, we are more willing to avoid contrary evidence to maintain the vitality of the illusion. We pretend consequences do not exist because we ourselves do not see them. That others, unknown to us, must live with those consequences, is of little concern. This is particularly true when there is natural antithapy as between adolescents and their parents, freedom - authority.
Valid today is the concept of self-mastery as demonstrated by Kirk and Spock (and again in The Final Frontier with a very similar concept except it is depicted as Jungian Gestalt therapy rather than demonic possession.)
By the way — I will be nice to see Kevin Thomas Reilly again. I clicked your URL and saw Hyde’s name. He was recently interviewed by the StarTrekHistory.com people.
Just caught up with “Old Timey’s” post (#45). I am, as they say, truly in awe.