The power of Star Trek Remastered compells you to Trek anytime and anywhere.

This episode, like all the others, was absolutely Fan-Tas-TIC.

That improvement to the picture of young T’pring is something I hadn’t thought about, looks like T’pol’s mom’s house from Enterprise or similar at least.:-) Still curious about the scenes replaced with that new cgi shot, I think they look cool from the pictures and are a nice tie in to the movies but I hope they didn’t cut out too much of the “live action”? I can see if it was a long pan over just the arena but not sure about removing parts with the actors….anyway looking forward to seeing the complete ep.

Thanks for the pics!

#2 don’t worry, what they cut out for the CGI substitiution was of no real value, it was basically Kirk and McCoy walking towards the arena with Spock and mugging, since they hadn’t seen a Vulcan arena before.

^ Cool, thanks Matt. I loved the shots, both the placement of the arena as an explanation for the skyline/tie into the movies and Shir’kar from “Yesteryear”! Looks like they did a nice job, again.

Well, I for one was quite pleased… thought this was the best episode yet of the remastered effort.

Rob+

Very nice. The new shots on Vulcan were all very cinematic and added “scope” to the episode. The close up flyby was a showstopper. Nice work…again!

I ended up missing this episode this weekend, but I will be able to see it when it is replayed next weekend here in the southern oregon coast. But is the classic goof of Spoke leaning againist the set still in this?

“A close shot of the Enterprise”

I’ll say that’s close alright!

excellent

btw I met the actress T’Pring ( Arlene Martel) on the set of ‘of Gods and Men’

http://www.flickr.com/photos/95877115@N00/261625644/in/set-72157594314258476/

Has it eveer occured to anyone how truly amazing it is that Star Trek is really the only phenonemon in pop culture where a one episode cameo stint garnered a lifetime of admiration, curiosity, and demand?

Oh granted other genre shows have their own following and convention circuits but, you don’t often see Queen Ardellas royal guard #8 from the Buck Rogers tv show.

It’s truly amazing.

I’d just like to go on record and say that Arlene Martel was a babe of Julie Newmar-ian proportions. Grrrrreow!

#11 you said it!

FYI The WMV video link is now valid… the YouTube version will be up whenever youtube has finished processing it.

This was fun to watch. It appeared that the background cyclorama didn’t look quite as phony this time. Was it the remaster that made it look better or did they touch it up a little?? I never really noticed the steam fountain in the background but it really stood out here.

Nice touch with the young T’Pring shot. CBS-digital always has a little surprise for us every week. Great job on this episode!!

Hey Matt, I just wanted to say thanks again for putting those images together, week in and week out. My weekend isn’t complete til I soak them in. I really appreciate all your contributions to the site and you are always a pleasure to interact with on these talkback thingys. Good show, sir.

Indeed, another fine outing. The Vulcan city was not very prominent, making it a nice Easter Egg. I thought several of the Big E shots looked especially fine on this outing, including the departure from Vulcan and of course the wonderful close-up fly-by of the starboard side - I liked the reflections off the top of the saucer.

Anyone know if they used the older, more detailed CGI model on that close-up or were still using their newer less time-intensive version?

#14 — thank you sir, it is the whole community and the fun and engaging comments that make it worth it week after week.

#15 — Same model I’m 99.99% certain. The way I understand it when they said “simplified” they basically realized that they were rendering minute details that cannot be seen in any SD or HD format so they refined their model with that new baseline in mind.

Combat to the death.Giving birth in caves.Vulcans are so primitive.

Oh on the video clips, I highly suggest you all watch the WMV version it is quite a bit better quality. I included some live action footage in a few cases to give the new CGI context. If you notice you can see the little silhouettes of the trio walking along the path and into the arena. Later as the camera pulls out as Spock is beaming up you can see a tiny version of him shimmer and disappear in the front-center of the arena.

This episode was very nicely done. I like how they “justify” the red sky from the set by using the CGI shots. Very good enchancements to the episode. The REAL close up of the ship made me need to use my hand to close my mouth. Thanks for TiVo… I just played it again, and again, and again! LOL

I sure do hope CBS-D gets a chance to go back to some of the earlier episodes to make further improvments. They have improved their work and it would be nice if they could take advantage of their current knowledge to re-do some of the FX shots from early on.

#17 - that has always been part of the appeal of Vulcans to me - they are such enigmas. So advanced, logical, peaceful, et cetera, and yet stubbornly clinging to their ancient and completely weird traditions, so secretive and insular in so many ways, steeped in science yet apparently with a rich spiritual side, complete with temples and priestesses. They’re so complex and contradictory, and all the more interesting because of it.

The starboard shot of the E reminded me of the animated series when it would have a similar close up.

That closeup was HOT! It was like a Playboy centerfold, except that it was better!

Dude! If you get excited looking at CGI images of the Enterprise you need serious help! To compare a Playboy centerfold to a starship is just wrong!!

Mike

I will say, very nice indeed.

I wonder what they have in mind for the movies. ???

Very nicely done! This was a more artisitic approach than many of the other attempts. I love the new cgi shots of Vulcan with the TAS and movie tie-ins. Fantastic. I also really like the new angles of the Enterprise.

Keep up the good work CBS Digital! Just PLEASE go back and fix the earlier episodes that pale in comparison to your latest work.

indeed

Everything looked great indeed!

They looked like they were practically running towards the arena on the high long shot! I guess they had to speed that up a bit for time to match the original timing.

The close-up side view of the Enterprise was nice, if not a bit too close!

My only quibble is the whole sale edits this time of large chunks. I figured they took as much as they could earlier on so they could leave the last act as intact as possible, though that wasn’t spared the knife either.

#23 > “Dude! If you get excited looking at … the Enterprise ….”

Canon does tell us, Ms. E. has gratifying attributes in the eyes of her man.

(ST:TMP script, scene 118)
> “Kirk … hesitates just an instant. This is the moment
> he’s awaited, and to him it is equally as sensuous
> and gratifying as making love — which, perhaps, he is –
> to his mistress: The Enterprise.”

Whats wrong with getting that excited about checkin out the big E? Does Kirk himself not love that ship as he would a woman?

Hey if you guys can really get “hot” and “sexually excited” looking at screenshots of a computer generated starship, more power to you! Yikes!!

But, if you actually find a picture of the Enterprise more alluring than a “real” photo of a beautiful woman, then you are seriously in need of strong medications and many hours of psychiatric counselling!

#28..Hmm…I guess because the fictional character “Kirk” has a bizarre sensuous relationship with his equally fictional starship, that makes it understandable that a few trekkies have an equally bizarre sexual fetish for the USS Enterprise! Hahahah!!

Long live Spock and Quark!

Mike

I wish they’d removed the speck of dirt that appears in the sky as they beam down, but generally this looks lovely. And what a surprise that close up was.

I was very impressed how well the new mattes integrated into the live action. The timing was great and it fit the music so well. That close-up of the Enterprise was unbelievable.
Better than all that, is the episode itself. Such a good story and use of the three main characters. The guest stars are wonderful, especially Miss Lovsky with that accent. I remember how I used to be able to imitate all of her dialogue word for word. Martell is luscious here. I would think about fighting to da det for her.
Incredible.

I love the new mountain stuff, but lets face it, it doesn’t blend very well with the studio bound 60s feel.

Thanks for the screen shots and video Matt. Its nice to have the sound with it. I did notice a fair sized dot of dirt on the live action when they beam down. If you look in between Kirk and Spock as they beam down on the live action before it cuts to the CGI about half way through the beaming effect there is a black dot that appears then disappears. Hope they can sort that out.

Very nice work though!!! I love the new Shots of the ship and the new shots of Vulcan are breathtaking and really help to pull this episode out of the studio. Great work!

For all those posters that never seem to like the look of the infamous “nacelle caps”….I think in this episode they finally nailed down the right look. They look impressive, especially in the extreme close up shot of the Enterprise passing.

Maybe it’s just my eyes, but it seems that every week the shots of the Enterprise are getting sharper and improving in many subtle ways- better color and contrast, less shadows, more and better angles etc.

The CBS CGI team continues to surprise and improve from week to week. Keeps me looking forward to the next remastered episode. Great job!

Mike

Absolutely wonderful work! I am even more pissed off now because we can’t watch these wonderful episodes in the UK.

The new shots of the E and the planet Vulcan were wonderful and I really liked the other new stuff. Its hard to tell how well it blends with the rest of the live action stuff but I applaude the creativity that CBS D performed on this episode.

Even though we were all waiting for Doomsday, I think its the little surprises like the Tpring picfture that really impress me because of the level of creative thought that goes into updating something less obvious.

Why hasn’t this site written an article on the Star Trek documentary that is being aired on the History Channel, Monday night at 8 p.m. CST?

I was impressed with this one. The decision to replace the “troika walk” to the arena with the digital matte paintings was right, and it was handled deftly. My only criticism I mentioned in an earlier post was that the geography was too similar to that of ST3, and I fear it might devalue the imagery in that movie if a new fan were to watch the Trekverse in order. But the paintings looked great, and the pull-out as Spock beamed out was very effective. Gotta love that tight shot of the Enterprise CBS-D dropped in there too. I didn’t even notice they had replaced the background in T’Pring’s photograph until I came here. Nice! Kinda looks like the Vulcan homesteads seen in S4 of Enterprise.

The really close pass of the Enterprise reminded me of a shot in TAS. Looks great can’t wait to see this tonight.

Do you think Spock is smiling at the end because he knows he’s not going to jail? I mean, if I thought I killed my boss, I know I’d be going away for quite some time too.

I’m just sayin…

#18 - Matt, that was a super video capture! Your WMV video is much clearer than the UHF signal we get in my town over the cable system - I couldn’t see Spock beaming out until I saw your version. And they are much more enjoyable with the soundtrack included. It will certainly be a treat to finally see these episodes uncut in high definition on HD-DVD.

I’ll also echo Toonoon’s comment in #36 - this episode highlighted the creativity of the remastering team in addressing the Vulcan set limitations and tying together the disparate versions of Vulcan we have seen. And more power to them as they get more creative on the various ship shots. Here’s one vote for less stock footage and more dramatic angles like we saw this time around.

Thanks for including sound on the FX reel this time.

Where’s the shot of the Enterprise leaving orbit? I thought seeing the dark side of the planet with all of the lights from the surface looked spectacular. Is there some way that you could post that picture too?

This was a RADICAL departure from what’s been done til now!!

No one else seems to have pointed out that this remastering has crossed a line into radical territory, which is to excise actual live action dialog and replace it with CGI scenery. Everything til now has simply been replacing one FX shot with another. But now we have lost dialog. Now, i thought it worked brilliantly. A huge improvement, mostly because the music was so stirring. It had been a waste to have that music covered over with banal dialog. The new version is spectacular. But it is, nonetheless, a radical departure from what we’ve seen up until now. What other bits of dialog will be deemed expendable in the face of cool eye candy?

This is an issue that makes the middle initial pale in comparison. All dialog is canon, right?

Thanks for including sound in the FX reel, adds a better sense of context than the silent videos had.

Some great new CGI there, too. I had my concerns about them removing footage of the actos, but it looks like it was totally justified.

# 18, Matt, you’ve outdone yourself. Amazing capture. Could you go back and re-do the Doomsday Machine? Seriously, I think viewing this on a good monitor with a decent graphics card will put paid to all the critics of CBS Digital. Amazing work! I don’t see any harsh or “gamey” looking work; the texture and lighting are damn good.

My TV is an old Phillips CRT, so that helps eliminate any artifacts. I’ll bet that if Canon SED is perfected, or the new Pioneer plasma technology, the HD DVDs will be amazing. Matt’s work here looked like what I saw on TV — almost. Again, maybe those who don’t like the recent efforts are watching on LCDs or older plasma.

Fantastic work. They should at least get an Emmy nomination!

And thanks again, Matt.

#44; keep in mind these are just syndication cuts, in order to meet modern show time length demands. An “hour long” show, which used to run 53 to 55 minutes, now has to be 43 minutes or under. And let’s face it; it’s the new CGI that’s selling this, per se, to a new audience. They’ll come aboard when the TOSR is released on DVD.

#19; agreed; now that I’ve seen more and more, I want a TOSR(R) (or TOSRv2) of “BALANCE OF TERROR”.

re/”Close shot of the ENTERPRISE”

I really want more of this. I want an underside shot (a la the teaser trailer for STAR TREK VI: THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY) as the 1701 approaches a planet.

First of all The close Shot of the Enterprise was a pleasant surprise. The exterior shots are purely fantastic. With a big screen TV I really liked the attention of detail.

The only part I was cringing a little on was the Vulcan arena long shots. I felt it was just a unnecessary shot which more than likely they could have used for improving the background when they are already in the arena. If it was just a lack of time and money than this episode should have been rescheduled and time could have been spent on that.

Yes I do think the stills look amazing but I didn’t feel this had to be in the episode at all. It didn’t take the Vulcan procession that long to arrive in the arena.

#44

“No one else seems to have pointed out that this remastering has crossed a line into radical territory, which is to excise actual live action dialog and replace it with CGI scenery.”

They have been seduced by the power of the dark side of CGI, and made allegiance to Darth Lucas? Now they have started down that path, forever will it hold them …. LOL

I agree to a certain extent that there is a fine line between updating FX, replacing matte paintings, and cleaning up old film stock, and excising portions of Trek (”Classic formula”) ” for “New Trek”.

I’ll acknowledge a slight discomfort with the change, but can always return to the fact that EVERYTHING done in the Remastered project is doing that. The ’stun sweep’ done in Wink of an Eye (R), where they ‘grabbed’ an image of the Shat’s arm, recreated it, moved it enough to have the phaser fire become a sweep of discrete beams — rather than a green ‘blob’ that covered the entire FOV — was the same basic act. Now, CBS(D) didn’t exise dialog to my knowledge, but, I’m presuming that those extra couple of seconds came at the expense of something else.

Ironically, an argument could be made that the weekly time editing process done for the broadcast is more destructive to the vision of the original ep director and writer.

If what someone wants is the original ORIGINAL, and is uncomfortable with the changes (any) made in the remastering, that’s available for viewing. Someone who isn’t, can watch (for now), and purchase the DVDs when CBS releases them.

For now, I am going to continue to enjoy the remastering. IF they go too far (and I guess that I’ll have to make that call when it happens), then I’ll make a decision as to (a) continuing to watch and (b) purchasing them when they are released.

#44-Uhm….what dialogue? I know the episode by heart and it was all there, save the syndication cuts….but the new CGI of Vulcan and the walk to the “arena” had absolutely NO DIALOGUE cuts. Better check your facts.

Excellent fx reel and with sound! I love it.

Still pissed that they chopped T-Pau’s line about Spock’s burning blood and his reply that his blood burns. etc..

The shots of them walking to the arena worked well I thought.

I can’t wait to see the full uncut versions!

#50 Well said -
“Flying Tigress” who went to High School on the Planet Deneva. Not many of us could make such a claim! Cheers - -

No smashing the monitor?!?!?!??!

re: 33. Stu Lurring - February 18, 2007

” I love the new mountain stuff, but lets face it, it doesn’t blend very well with the studio bound 60s feel.”

I thought it helped set up the illusion that the red vulcan sky backdrop was more realistic. It made it feel less studio-like. It was cut in exceedingly well. It replaced nothing of importance. They were still walking, just in a far away shot. The beam out at the end was more dramatic in the long shot. I like everything about it.

re: 38 Aphelion

“My only criticism I mentioned in an earlier post was that the geography was too similar to that of ST3, and I fear it might devalue the imagery in that movie if a new fan were to watch the Trekverse in order.”

That point of view just continues to befuddle me. The term “devalue” as used here just does not register. The only thing I can see is that it gives Vulcan a somewhat consistent look.

Next week KIROK!!!!!!!!!! “Out of my way Salish!!” Another chance to tackle an asteroid!!!

I was just blown away again, Bravo to our new bestest buddies at CBS.
Awesome. Please for the dvds go back and bring that same magic to Balance of Terror

Love the inserts, including the ’streeeeetched’ walk to the arena. Thought the lead figure on the bridge moved a little fast for that scale.
One downer note. This episode gets me cheesed off in advance against “The Cloud Minders.” After all it took to get Spock to open up here, it’s aggravating to hear that air-head (pun intended) Droxine just throw out “Is it true Vulcans do it only once every seven years?” in casual budoir conversation. How the hell would she know anything about Pon Farr? Or Jamie Farr? I don’t know. I think that episode has some major weaknesses. I can see why David Gerrold dove off the platform on that one. Likewise, there’s WAY too much foreknowledge about Vulcans in Enterprise. Hence, the danger of prequels. I hope they keep that in mind, as well, when they’re policing the script for XI.

I think the CGI long shots on Vulcan were nice, but a bit too far away - it’s hard to get the connection with the live action - does not blend well IMHO, especially the last shot of Spock beaming up - too far away from the action. It would have been nicer to see a pull back from the original beam out shot, merging with CGI surroundings.

And, doesn’t bother enyone else that the E is grey - not white like in the original shots - it seems way too dark, especially when oribiting a planet. I can understand the grey when in deep space where there is no close by star, but when orbiting an arid planet like Vulcan? The E should be much brighter, almost white. Take a look of the space shuttle in space - when turned toward the sun, that ship is very bright.

Great seeing the Enterprise so close up on that one flyby. That was unique. I almost felt like I could reach out and jump on board her!

Excellent choices for vulcan, got a kick of the cgi Spock, Kirk, McCoy walking into the doorway then the cut to live action of them doing the same, ditto seeing little Spock beam out.

Now if the audio guys would just remix the opening titles to give the opera singer the proper intensity, that’d be great.

Love this stuff.

#53

No. I didn’t.

But I could see it from there! ROFLMAO

(Ironically, a few years after I graduated, the Redondo Beach School District did a consolidation of their facilities, closed the Aviation HS campus — and sold the campus: buildings, rec facilities, and land — to TRW. So, Deneva annexed the H.S.

And, to answer the question that I have had to answer from TOO MANY over the past 30+ years, “No. Aviation HS was so-named because it was — TA-DA — located on Aviation Blvd. — not because it was a ‘flight school’”

#37

Thanks for the reminder about the History Channel Documentary. I have just set up my TiVo to record it!

#47

Yeah, Balance of Terror is an episode that could use some rework. It will be interesting to see what happens with the DVD release.

#60 So, Deneva annexed the H.S.

Interesting.

I agree with those who appreciate the sound with the FX reel. The download (which I watched first) doesn’t have it, and that matte shot so so much more powerful when you get to hear the music along with it!

The History Channel seems to have two documentaries on Trek. One premieres on Sunday, the other on Monday.

Those entering the arena shots are in my opinion a huge improvement of the originals and really show that arid Vulcan landscape. To quote Bill & Ted “Very excellent!”

My only pick: Yes, the computer photos did tend to look like mugshots, but the original served a purpose; to quickly show what T’pring looked like in just a few seconds. The new one looks nice but it’s very complicated. Obviously these shots, like Roy Kirk or Khan, weren’t going to have sets built for them, but the simplicity kind of works both as effective TV and as efficient photos in what must be an incredibly large computer database. For all we know the computer picks the simplest shots; those resembling passport or police IDs.

#67 - The original historical pic of Khan from “Space Seed” had a background didn’t it?

And I’m with #51 regarding #44. The only missing dialogue resulted from syndication edits for time. The CG Vulcan shots removed no dialogue. The soundtrack is as it always was. All the edits will be there on the DVD. If you had been watching the non-enhanced version of “Amok Time” on broadcast TV, it would have had the same edits but no shiny new eye candy.

I don’t an issue with the mountain top arena being similar to that in Star Trek 3. Whose to say that Vulcan’s geography is not like that in many other areas.

I don’t have cable or satalite, by choice. Do you think this History Channel Star Trek piece will be available on DVD?

Anthony……this doesnt have anything to do with this tread,,,but could you do a lil investigating and find out whats up with the exeter fan films….its been way to long for the rest of their last film….have they given up or what?and is there a download link i can only find it on streaming …thanks

Kinda sad he didn’t get married.that whole Ston thing was such weasel’s way out for the writer.Oh,at the end.After ALL THAT…T’Pring; “AND STILL I WOULD HAVE STON!” what a b!#*%

re 44.

yes my mistake. no dialog is missing. that’ll teach me! I broke the first rule of geek combat: always check the data before going into battle.

# 58 - agreed. I’ve mentioned that before: The Enterprise is white, not gray. The gray color makes it look more militaristic, less “clean” and I don’t care for it. CBS needs to change the color before they release the dvds, and the future episodes need to show the E in white. It’s one thing to improve the fx shots, space, ships, etc, but quite another to change the color of the Enterprise. Why not make it blue or gold or red or…..? It’s white, and that shouldn’t be tampered with. (Yeah, I know - a preposition is a word you don’t end a sentence with.)

Jon, there’s some who don’t appreciate having a writer of Theodore Sturgeon’s stature referred to as a “weasel,” not even in fun. Somehow, I think you may have missed the point about T’Pring impeccable, logical ruthlesness, and how Spock was in the end was far better off without her. Stonn wasn’t the brightest lightbulb in the box, but at least he wanted an honorable contest played by the rules. He wound up getting the girl anyway–and probably lived to regret it.

All told, you couldn’t have picked a more rousing intro to the second season of Star Trek than “Amok Time.” Overally the quality and consistency of the season’s scripts was inferior to the first, but at its best it upped the quotient of fun and adventure–and even more importantly to the series’ future, the sense of the Enterprise crew as a surrogate family. Never was that better expressed than in this episode.

It’s just one of those things where you know the character isn’t going to get married and the writer is looking for an out.I think Trek writers have trouble defining what Vulcan is.I wouldn’t have gone with the primitive emotional angle as a writer. Well anyway,it’s just fantasy.

There should have been cgi actors inserted into the arena on the long shot at the end. When Spock beamed up at the end there were still people in the arena. However, on the long exit shot the arena was empty.

Overall, I felt the new cgi shot added to this episode. I did like the addition of Shi’Khar in the background.

In the last shot, T’Pau and company were hidden behind the rock wall. Spock was the only one you could see from that angle.

re: 76

They were standing behind the front wall where you couldn’t see them.

Overall very impressed.

The “young T’pring” photo? not so much. The angle of the background did not match the model in the foreground. It might have been better left alone.

What if?…
What if Kirk had won the fight? Knowing Kirk and his reputation I think T’Pring might have regretted choosing him.

THE ENTERPRISE IS NOT FRIGGIN WHITE!!! It is a shade of light grey. SOURCES: 1. http://members.aol.com/WMccullars/74Enterprise.html (the 11 footer with the original hull paint paint as photographed in 1974) and 2. http://members.aol.com/WMccullars/74Enterprise.html A Scifi modeler’s website, and these guys are FAR more knowledgable and obsessive about ship color than all of us combined! So I will slap the crap out of the next guy that wrongly claims that the E is white! Read it and weep.

#80 Maybe E is light grey, but it looks white because the original model was lit up so brightly? Maybe if the model were white it would have looked too white/washed out when it was lit? I know somebody out there knows…

Anyway, the grey/white color was chosen because it stands out the most against a black background. However, I notice naval ships are grey–I am assuming that is the best camouflaged color when a ship is at sea. Therefore, should E really be black? XD

It only looked white in the first season and some second season shots. It is either due to 1. the ridiculously bright lighting they used on the E (I’ve built a few models of the original E and other E’s myself, if you shine a bright light on it such as camera flash, that thing will appear white!) 2. washed out film (e.g. most of the first season shots, see Balance of Terror, Corbomite Maneuver). In the third season, when most agree the big E looked best…that thing was GREY. Look at the ‘For the World is Hollow’ screenshots. So you can argue that maybe the E looks white sometimes, but to claim that the E IS white and that CBS-D has the color wrong is false. CBS-D is simply lighting it more realistically. Cased closed, gentemen.

I accept that E is grey, though it appears much brighter in the original shots, most likely because they had to pull mattes off the model, so it had to have a defined edge - which can be very tricky with circular surface, so they threw all sorts of light at it.

However, I still think CBSD can light it brighter and maybe give back some of the blue tint that many of the original shots had as well to better match the original. Check out Starship Exeter and Darren’s models, I think they come much closer to original.

This image of the original model in daylight on a 1960s street clearly shows that it’s not white:
http://www.dragonhaven.plus.com/other/E_model_1960s_street.jpg

I think the way that the CBS-digital model is lit now, with a stronger directional light source and some reflectivity on the hull, is about the right balance for me. Originally I do think it looked too much of a matt grey

Looked pretty strong to me!! Nice work CBS-D… I remember those extreme close-ups from the animated series so it’s kinda cool that we’re getting the cgi treatment here.

Oh yeah… just to rub it in… they’re replaying Doomsday in my market tonight… nanny-nanny boo-boo…

The original model was a medium grey, with some streaks of darker colors applied as weathering.

“THE ENTERPRISE IS NOT FRIGGIN WHITE!!! It is a shade of light grey. SOURCES: 1. http://members.aol.com/WMccullars/74Enterprise.html (the 11 footer with the original hull paint paint as photographed in 1974) and 2. http://members.aol.com/WMccullars/74Enterprise.html A Scifi modeler’s website, and these guys are FAR more knowledgable and obsessive about ship color than all of us combined! So I will slap the crap out of the next guy that wrongly claims that the E is white! Read it and weep.”

Bwhahahaahahha!!! Thanks fro saying what MUST be said! I was wanting to slap the crap out of him too! LOL!!!!

White…are you people color blind? BWHAHHAAHAHAHA!!!

TTM

Nostromo - The early CBSD model was bad, not just too grey, but also a lack of hardness to the surface.

I like the rendering of the later model, but I still think they are lighting it wrong - the ambient light just needs to be punched up, especially when orbiting a planet, presumably close to a sun.

It’s subtle, but here’s my crude photoshop relighting of the screen shots above:
http://www.csisf.net/images/amok_lighter2.jpg
http://www.csisf.net/images/amok_lighter.jpg

Saw the episode, thought it looked great. I would have preferred, though, that our heroes had beamed down just outside the arena, rather than crossing that lo-o-o-ng bridge. It would have matched better with the existing footage. Kirk and McCoy would have entered the arena sweaty and breathless if they had made that long a hike in the Vulcan atmosphere!

Also, has anyone mentioned that CBS Digital has added engine noise to the exterior Enterprise shots? You used to only hear that in the very earliest episodes. It really adds a nice “punch” to those scenes.

Have y’all read Gary Kerr’s commentary on the hull color?

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=1017961&postcount=25

(This link was previously posted last month in the “World Is Hollow …”
article comments, I’m reposting it here for anyone who may have missed it.)

Excerpts:

“The ship’s color is very deceptive, so don’t trust photographs. To the naked eye, the paint is a medium gray with the faintest hint of green; yet under flash photography, the paint looks MUCH lighter, practically an off-white.”

“… Back to [restorer Ed Miarecki’s] garage in 1991: I whipped out my Federal Standard chips to determine the color of the model. … The pristine upper saucer was weathered with a multitude of greens, browns, and charcoal grays (and possibly clear coats, too). I couldn’t find an exact match for the basic hull color, but a slightly lighter shade of FS 36473 would be close. …”

“… Ed … [selected] GM Gray 4539 … but to my eyes, the GM gray is more of a pure, sterile gray, with no greenish cast. …”

(”BTW, the medium gray color of the impulse deck, nacelle endcaps, etc. was a color midway between FS36373 & 36293.”)

(Text excerpted from Gary Kerr’s Feb. 2005 post.
Hit the link above and read the rest.)

This “radical departure” talk is a bit overblown. If they cut dialogue, I’d say there’s a point behind your comments. However, the substance of the show is not changed by a couple of well-placed matte shots. Honestly, you’re talking about several seconds of cut footage showing three men walking!

And may I remind those who are upset by this that the original originals (un-Lucasified if you will) are going to be available along with these remastered versions for your consumption. Paramount/CBS claims that these remastered episodes are an alternative not a replacement for the original versions.

Funny.speaking of the color of starships.you rarely see a starship painted a single color .Like some sort of luxury liner that some starcruiser line is proud of.they all seem to be grey.It’d be kind of cool to see a civilian starship in Trek xi.I mean like a 24 th century Queen Mary.the cruise industry should be thriving in the 24th century(all those places you could go and see).Maybe they can make Trek xi about the Enterprise escorting a beautiful state of the art luxury liner and showcase a utopian future instead of a relatively well appointed military ship (the Enterprise).

Nostromo, thanks for that fascinating photograph. I’d seen it before, of course, but not in color. What struck me looking at it was not so much the color of the ship (it actually does looks pretty white to me), but just how long ago that picture was taken. Look at those cars–isn’t it bloody amazing that people are still obsesively commenting about this subject, after all these years?

Could you post the other orbit shots from the episode? I believe there was one of the Enterprise orbiting Vulcan and two of the Enterprise leaving orbit.

Thanks, if you could.

The Refit Enterprise is pearlescent white.
The Constitution class Enteprise is Camouflage Grey
The Enterprise D is Duck Egg Blue
The Enterprise E is various shades of grey, light grey, intermediate grey, Dark Ghost Grey, etc.

I’m a fleshy sort of hue.

Anyone that has ever taken the Universal Studios tour, or seen a movie or tv show filmed or taped knows that the buildings, props, clothing, etc don’t look quite right, yet when seen on the big or little screen look “normal.” The color, texture, etc. is often one thing in “real life” and comes across differently on screen because of lighting, filters, the nature of film and videotape, etc.

Whatever color the Enterprise model was painted basically appears as white on screen. Bright white? No. “Where are my sunglasses” white? No. But obviously what is seen/perceived is the intention of the producers; not what was filmed. When we watch TOS, we see a white Enterprise. There may have been some episodes where it appeared more gray, just as it appears to have a green tint on those websites that supposedly prove it was gray. But the general appearance was white and that was what we were supposed to perceive. 40 years ago, no one sat in front of their TV sets, watched the Enterprise swoosh by and said, “There goes a gray painted model that looks white because of the lighting.” They saw a white starship swoosh by. Just like special effects, green screen stuff, etc. - what is filmed, and what you are supposed to believe you are seeing are quite often two different things. I mean, yikes, why do you think actors wear makeup?

Even the Hobby Talk article says:

“First, the main hull color:

“The ship’s color is very deceptive, so don’t trust photographs. To the naked eye, the paint is a medium gray with the faintest hint of green; yet under flash photography, the paint looks MUCH lighter, practically an off-white.

“[As an aside, the paint scheme of the Enterprise-A is similarly deceptive. When I was at ILM for the filming of Star Trek VI, I got to examine the model for the first time. I was expecting the model to be painted with various shades of light to medium blue-grays, but, instead, I saw a big white spaceship trimmed with a number of subtle, VERY pastel versions of powder blue. Both the 4ft and 6ft models of the Enterprise-D look the same in person as they do in photos.]”

Take a look at the Master Replica model. I saw it in Vegas last year at the Convention – white. The color of the paint used to create a white Enterprise on screen is not the issue. They could probably paint a model any color they want, and through the use of filters, color manipulation via computers, etc., make it appear any other color. The bottom line is the Enterprise is basically white, not gray. As I said, not “Where are my sunglasses” white, but white nevertheless. When created via CGI, they should replicate the original as it appeared on screen, not what color it was painted or what color they want it to be.

curious,
there is a shot from Spock’s quarters right after he chucks the Plomeek Soup. They seemed to have remembered to show the soup on the wall right outside his quarters. Did they remember this continuity back then or did they add it this time round?

#96 - Mark,

Well said. I really didn’t want to get this into a white versus grey discussion, but rather what is the percieved color of the Enterprise. I’m sure 7 out of 10 folks will say it’s white, or off - white, greyish white - but basically white.

My contention all along is that CBS-D is underlighting the model and it could be because they want it to look more realistic, with one strong key light and a much weaker fill light - that plus their adherence to the original “grey” color makes for a very grey colored rendered model.

To me, the CG Enterprise does not “pop” or contrast well against the black of space as did the original, so it loses something in the translation from filmed model to CG model and does not look “right” to me.

Also, to add to the color controversy, I just watched “Tomorrow Is Yesterday.” There is a nice close-up scene of the Enterprise orbiting the Earth right after the Colonel tells Kirk he is going to lock him up for 200 years and Kirk says, “That oughta be just about right.” At first glance, the E looks white, but if you look carefully (or even pause the picture), it’s more of a very light pastel blue. The underside of the saucer section had a gray look to it, but that was shadow, not coloring.

The soup was always there. It was confirned by Matt I think in the other talkback.

And re: #96 and the Master Replicas 1701, FWIW a friend of mine sent me a couple dozen pictures of his and it looks light grey in every one.

Redshirt wrote:

> The only part I was cringing a little on was the Vulcan arena long shots.

I was fine with the first long shot of the Vulcan arena in the Remastered. However, when it was used again to show the beaming away of Spock, that’s where it became jarring. In the original, Spock walks to the center of the arena (a long shot on the stage), alone, facing an uncertain future, and beams away. An extended sequence and very dramatic! However, in the Remastered, Spock is reduced to a tiny dot in the distance of the arena long shot. The sense of drama is broken in order to show the arena again (unnecessarily).

just look at the old ep screeshots above of the ship? That looks white..!?!?
Even the 2nd one down..??

re: 102. Robert Bernardo

“The sense of drama is broken in order to show the arena again (unnecessarily).”

To the contrary, I thought it heightened the sense of drama with the pull away from the arena at the end when Spock beams out.

Each to his own, I guess.

I was reading over this thread, and happened to glance over at the “grade this episode” poll and I wondered - who is the soreheaded old crank who is grading these episodes with an ‘F’? Surely this is just a reflexive expression of disdain for the whole project rather than a specific critique of the work done on the actual episode. It is beyond my comprehension that an openminded person - regardless of how they feel about the whole remastering project - could look at those digital mattes and grade them ‘F’.

Okay, first off, Matt Wright must do all future capturing of the nex FX. The quality of that video capture looked better than watching the episode on my standard def 20 inch TV!

Second, some scheduling info for Twin Cities watchers: Channel 45 has stopped airing “Star Trek” at 6pm on Sturdays and is instead showing it at 4:30 & 10:00pm on Sundays.

Third, many thanks to CBS Digital for giving me an excuse to watch the original series again and getting my wife into Star Trek. There’s no way I coulda started converting her without ya!

#105-Agreed, some people just can’t have an open mind about anything. Wonder what they’ll think of the new movie! lol

#106-Though I’ve been working on converting my wife to Trek, it hasn’t been easy. I will say, she liked Enterprise (but so did I)…however, IMO there is nothing quite like the grand-daddy of them all. I do think the new special effects are helping her interest, though. The sotry still sells the show overall. She liked “Journey To Babel” the best so far, and it does have a great story to it.

Maybe what has annoyed her in the past is that I can tell which episode it is by the opening shot (even if it’s the ship flying through space) and I rattle off it’s name. Maybe this new-fangled stuff will fake me out and make her happy! ha-ha

my gripe about this ep was regarding the “udse” of the long shots cgi too!

why didnt they just “rotoscope” the footage of them kirk, spock and mcoy
into them?

IT WOULD HAVE WORKED BETTER…imo…

Also they goofed with Spocks “beam out”…the close up of his angst at just killing his Captain…worked better in the original, they should NOT have shown the platform arenaand its area again in a long shot with spocks beam up!

thank yee

Shay

I thought the beam-out captured Spock’s loneliness and guilt perfectly.

hi daystrom lives!

well ech to their own as they say!…i just felt it was not nessisary to show a tiny spock beamed out and that it took away from the emotional impact of the story…it was not nessisary or warranted to place a new cgi there, in my humble… yet lovable opinion.

I rated it a B on the score…well done overall!

peace out

Shaye

It’s interesting this whole Enterprise color controversy is still going…the reason is that different versions of the same model were seen in stock shots throughout the series. The original pilot versions were painted a much lighter gray, closer to white, and those are seen in many of the orbital shots repeated throughout the series. Also, the process photography improved as the show went on so when we got into the second and third seasons the ship was properly exposed and lit, and those are the most accurate views of its color we get–but we STILL get shots of the whitish-colored pilot models, particularly on end-episode shots of the ship traveling away from the camera.

I still have to watch the episode with the sound cranked up but I liked the shots I saw (although I would agree the enhanced childhood shot of T’Pring, while a nice idea, wasn’t convincingly executed). While it may seem like sacrilege to remove live action footage, I’m not against it as long as the original versions of the episodes still exist–in fact there are sequences in “The Doomsday Machine” of people pretending to fall around and be shaken by explosions that go on too long for me–they show the seams a little too much and I think you could very effectively cut down some of those moments and replace them with effects.

111, Mr. Bond your last point,

in fact there are sequences in “The Doomsday Machine” of people pretending to fall around and be shaken by explosions that go on too long for me–they show the seams a little too much and I think you could very effectively cut down some of those moments and replace them with effects.

I agree; I would have liked to seen a shot of the DDM’s beam hitting the Enterprise; that would’ve been way cool!

I’ve been finding the discussion about the look of the new effects work interesting. I think on balance that (if I’m really, really honest) my childhood memories are of a white USS Enterprise. I even had a corgi toy of it that was white, although since I had a Thunderbird 2 that was blue instead of green this doesn’t prove very much.

However while I instinctively prefer a whiter Enterprise, to look “truer” to my nostalgic memory of the original effects, I do also like what CBS-Digital have been doing, particularly the more recent episodes. I think their version of the big E is undeniably the ship I watched all those years ago.

My favorite shot so far is probably the Galileo on final approach from ‘Journey to Babel’. The ship there isn’t white, but it’s a light enough grey that it really evokes the original model, while also enhancing the detail:

http://www.dragonhaven.plus.com/other/Babel_Galileo_Approach.jpg

So while I have a sneaking fondness for the white version, I find myself liking the new look too.

I like the new look of the Enterprise. Sure, it looked white and blueish back in the day, but I do like the new look. It seems to be much better then say, one CGI orbital shot in “Devil In The Dark”. It just seemed to have a flat gray model look that they’ve improved on during their latest efforts as someone above has noted.

As long as they continue upgrades with moderate improvements I’m happy with all the effects.

Why would anyone want the Enterprise to be “WHITE?”

That particular distinction is reserved for the refit Enterprise.

The non-canonical explanation is that the Refit Enterprise was the first starship not to be painted with the customary “LIGHT GREY THERMOCOAT”, leaving the hull a bare alloy appearance, removing much unnecessary weight, cost, and work to the ship- tantamount to the Shuttle fuel cylinder.
You could also argue the Enteprise was left unpainted due to the rushed departure schedule to face the Vejur emergency. Painting it was the last thing on anyones mind, and they simply left it white after the mission was completed.

The original Starship Enterprise wouldn’t look right white. The glowing nacelle ramscoops would promote entirely too much of a contrast with the white surface as well as the darker grey and black detailing.
The reason you get the original Enterprise in multiple hues is the polished sheen of the glossy surface, not the color value.
So in a sense everyone can be satisfied. If you want the Enterprise to be blue, park her next to a nebula, or Vejur. If you want the Enterprise to be Orange, get her close to a Star or Gas giant planet. If you want the Enterprise white, flood her with bright ass lights. If you want her green, park her over Venus.
No one has made the observation that the team is illuminating the CGI Enterprise very much like the departing shot of the Enterprise in Trek IV, that lovely contrast shot against SOL.
The Enterprise in actuality wouldn’t be visible in space away from stars, so since we aren’t going for reality, I think one key light source as a constant against the hull is a nice compromise. You don’t get the blinding uniform illumination all over the ship which is entirely unrealistic, yet you also don’t get a black silhouette with little porthole lights either, since the original configuration Enterprise didn’t feature self illuminating spot-lights.
Continue going with your artistic instincts CBS Digital, not fan personal preference.

For those of you who find the new young T’pring image reminiscent of “ENT: Home” it might be because its the same set only with the Vulcan gong circa “Amok Time” added to it. The plant in the background is the same plant.

One line in particular that I missed (because they excised it) was T’Pau’s to Spock: “Art thou Vulcan, or art thou [practically spitting out the word] human?” I thought it fit in nicely with the notion (from “Enterprise”) that things weren’t always so peachy-keen between the Vulcans and the humans.

Was Vulcan colonized by Quakers?

the 11 footer with the original hull paint paint as photographed in 1974

11 foot? How did they get all the crew in that then?

It became a cliche later, but the music for this episode was really great (which is probably why it was reused so much in later episodes).

I think the remastered version was great. The new view of the arena was a nice touch, livening up the small set.

As for those saying the Enterprise is not a want or desire it is – a mechanical device… No, she’s a beautiful lady and we love her!

Missed the episode due to my work schedule, but glad I got to see the FX clips here. That close shot of the Enterprise cruising by was awesome. I wish I’d seen that on the TV. Also, the new matte shots of the ceremony arena fit in extremely well. Loved the shot of Spock beaming back to he ship. By cutting to the wide angle of the whole arena on the outcropping, it makes him seem very small and vulnerable, which adds much to the drama. His wife betrayed him and he was forced to kill his best friend in combat. Adding that wide shot was a nice touch. I’ll have to catch the whole episode another time.

Let’s see more of this kind of stuff from CBS Digital. Each episode gets better and better and better!

I enjoyed Amok immensely, but I also echo posters who did not think the Tiny Spock Beam Out worked very well. The close up of the Enterprise flyby was awesome. You know, it occurs to me that McCoy was taking an aweful chance with his gamble. Did you think T’Pau was onto McCoy all along? I think so.
I watched the re-run of Doomsday after, and I swear, Mr. Windom’s acting is quite “re-watchable”, no need to re-master there… *tee,hee ;-p
~~~ As a question just thrown out there, did anyone ever calculate mathmatically how long it would take for a civilization with some sort of faster than light travel to explore this galaxy? Sounds like a thing that would already been conjectured, but I’m not that well read, I’ll admit. Just curious. Sometimes, in Star Trek, it seems like the Galaxy has become awful small… ;-D

116 - It’s a little late but StarTrek.com updated their enhanced images with the Young T’Pring shot on Sunday. Link and text:

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/bst/article/28135.html
“As you can see from this comparison, the visual effects artists at CBS Digital have replaced the plain background in this still of a young T’Pring with scenery that we have come to know as a typical Vulcan home (such as we saw in Enterprise’s “Home”). The image of T’Pring (played by a 7-year-old Mary Rice) itself has also been enhanced.”

#121

I watched the re-run of Doomsday after, and I swear, Mr. Windom’s acting is quite “re-watchable”, no need to re-master there

I agree. The way he says “On the third planet” conveys so much.

#121: McCoy: “Tri-ox compound. At least it’ll give Kirk a fighting chance”.

T’Pau: “Fill him with steroids for all I care. No human’s ever gonna beat a Vulcan!”

That’s the impression I got

I just can’t stop myself from saying this: “WOW, they totally NAILED the nacelles this time! Perfect!!!”

CBS-D has settled on depicting the Enterprise as she was originally painted. (In the later seasons, that is.)
GOOD decision, IMHO.
Here’s why:
IF, in a perfect world, the fx guys could have AVOIDED the color shifts and blue spills inherent in the compositing processes back in the 60’s, we would have seen a GRAY ship. Not white, not bluish, but GRAY (with a tinge of green)- as it was painted.
CBS-D’s intention is a wise one- one that represents the ship as intended…. so get over it.
And that close-up was awesome. (Not bad for a “less-detailed” model.)

I agree that the original photo of young T’Pring looks like a mugshot. The new version looks much better and more realistic.

If I was looking at a photo of someone from my childhood, it would have a background on it. It wouldn’t look like a mugshot or a picture ID.

yep…everything was perfect in this episode, but for the needless and unwarranted cgi intercut of Mr. Spocks beam out just to show the cartoonish looking cgi effect by cbs/paramount …one…more…time!

I Grade this efforft a B+, because everything else was so much crisper and clearer than WE have ever seen before in this episode.

The detail visable was outstanding in the filmed segments…the cgi Vulcan was FAIRLY good…if over used.

The Enterprise look almost as good as a flimed 3rd season Big- E, In this one, THEY ARE GETTING BETTER!

cheers!

Shaye

So, Shay……do you like the beam out at the end of the Remastered Amok Time then??? or is it Shaye?

sorry… i was chanelling anna nicole smith earlier in my remarks…see …
i am blonde after all!

But…well yes and no….to your question!…yes i like the intent of Okuda and co at CBS/cgi…but am not always pleased with the result you might say?

picky picky….i know…but god, doomsday hooked me on what they can do!

outstanding work…A+!!!

“Shaye”

I will refrain from any blonde jokes.

Janice Rand must have been fond of Vulcan hairstyles, look at all that basket hair!

Everything looks wonderful except for one thing, and its RATHER a big thing and extremely odd and distracting that they missed it. Especially since all graphics programs have and EYEDROPPER feature that allows you to put your cursor over the exact color you want to match.

It’s the sky.
The sky is definitely ORANGE on that wonderful wide shot of them walking, then the sky is RED on the set.

What the hell?

Yes, I agree spockboy, it’s things like this that are making some the new additions very jarring in too many instances for my own liking…

When I first saw the excellent new “CBS Digital” Vulcan Planet and cgi terrain shots, while I know they are excellent, I so wish they had been done in an “angrier” RED to match the look of the SERIES originals, not the look of the later movies…

These new additions would have looked even MORE dramatic, and better , if they had just more CLOSELY matched the original series “set backdrop” colour…especially since the team AREN’T altering most of these “backdrops”…unfortunately.

I agree with Jim (#51), there was loss of dialogue. they were just walking silently into the arena. I believe the CGI work by CBS-digital is just getting better with each attempt. One little thing that bothers me, is the lack of the red glow of the impulse engines, or the flashing red and green running lights. I will have to go back and check my DVR, but i do think they still haven’t made them a regular effect. Only on the Constellation in DDM, because the impulse engines firing up were a major plot point. As far as using the subtle hints of TAS and the Movies, i think that is great, and shows a sense of continuity. I’m sure that an intelligent viewer, and true fan can see the difference between this arena and the altar on Mt Seh’laya, in STIII. Personally I think it is time to “Officially” include the storylines from TAS. “YESTERYEAR” has always received special consideration, when the rest of TAS is still considered Apocryphal. TAS is always mentioned, and compared, so let’s just include it in the Canons. After all, TAS won an Emmy, TOS never did…….lol

#80..Thank you Reign1701A, I was begining to get tired of all this “The Enterprise is White CRAP. Check your facts people. The TOS Constitution Class ships were painted with a grey Thermocoat. *footnote—Mr. Scott’s Guide to The Enterprise*.as well as Reign’s Featured sources. The Refitted Enterprise was a shade of White, Pearl Essence, as it is described in the afore mentioned Mr. Scott’s Guide. The Old AMT model kitas weren’t changed to the Light grey, and grey/blue plastic because they ran out of white plastic. White would have made manufacture of the model pieces cheaper. in closing……….THE TOS ENTERPRISE IS NOT WHITE!!!!!!!!

#81….Yes the reason the E looked white was the lighting. If the E had been White, the lighting methods and cameras of the Mid 60’s would certainly have washed it out, and no detail would have been visible.The E is not a ship of war, it is a ship of exploration, therefore, no it should not be black. Besides if they wanted to hide it, they could just use the cloaking device stolen by Capt. Kirk in “the Enterprise Incident”, in violation of the Treaty of Algeron….TNG Episode “The Neutral Zone, The Pegasus, Etc, Etc. The only ships actually painted black were I believe the “Defiant” class vessels mentioned in William Shatner’s Book, “The Return”. So lets put this put this to rest once and for all….THE ENTERPRISE WAS GREY NOT WHITE