Are we going to, at some point, when it can be done get to see a video of the new cgi bridge dome zoom in? That’s what I really wanna see.

we\’ll try and get the up video if possible

Sweet!!

I will get to it after it airs in LA which is midnight Sunday (Pacific) so expect it early Monday am. I am like the last guy in the country to get the show…DOH

No, it came on while I was at work at like 4 pm and I didn’t know it. I really didn’t wanna miss it. However, I will get to see Space Seed tonight which I also missed, so there’s that at least.

The inside-the-bridge-dome shot was amazing - it really blew me away.

Can you discribe it? I mean, how did it look? How did they intagrate the cgi guys with the footage? I just wanna see it so bad!!

Is there anyone out there who can get any more screen caps at all?

Wow! I love that rearward shot!

as I said i will put up screenshots and video after it airs in LA tomorrow. if someone out there can provide us with the stuff before then I invite you to hit the tip line. we always appreciate the help,, but I suggest a tiny bit of patience

He he. Sorry. Thanks for the great site. You guys are great.

Is it just my eyes, or does that screenshot of the Enterprise leaving Starbase 11 have a hint of blue like in the original series? It looks great and very much reminds me of the original!

Mike

The bridge dome closeup:

I swear to God it used to be a closeup, but maybe I’m just imagining that.

Anyhow:

1) They show the original Enterprise; the one with red pointy nacelles, etc.
2) The zoom in on the bridge dome.
3) They show the inside of the bridge, while the bridge dome fades away.
4) They show the live action.

It was totally seamless. Fantastically done.

BIG DAWG A.P!!!!

who loves ya, Baybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

hitch1969, of course.

best!!

=h=

I thought I noticed that the transporter effect from The Cage footage was enhanced to be more similar to the effect from Enterprise, with the sparkles smaller, and shrinking to the centers of mass of the characters

Have to wait til 9pm Sunday night to see this! I always liked this episode, getting a peek at the old timey Enterprise!

One of the best episodes, if not THE best of the entire series. Very clever use of the pilot. The picture quality of the remaster is amazing. Vina is even more stunning than ever. Wish I could see part 2 right away. It’s like the old days, having to wait a week in between. As the Keeper would say…”Excellent!”

As much as I hated it before Trouble with Tribbles I love it (and the people around Okuda) now!

The bridge dome shot is a wonderful piece of work. The camara “flies” inward at a lower angle than the original to match the angle of the interior shot. You see the bridge during the entire fly-in. The dome appears as though looking through a fogged window. As the view gets closer you can see some movement of the crew members. The last few feet of the fly-in, the dome clears, as though the camera passes through it and drops smoothly into the bridge interior shot. Superb! The transition from the CGI to live action is totally smooth and seamless. If you are watching it on tape or DVR you will definately want to slow it down as the whole shot only lasts a few seconds. It also appears in a relativly small area of the courtroom viewscreen. Hope my description wasn’t too long-winded.

I looked at these two stills and my jaw dropped.

I cannot wait to see this thing in action. These shots look fantastic.

Now we just need to lobby the United Nations to foot the funds to build an entirely accurate Starship Enterprise to hang in orbit.

No matter that it would be a dead hulk of metal with no weapons, no shields, no propulsion, no life support, no gravity, no transporters, and no shuttlecraft, it would be DAMN pretty to look at through a telescope.

Mmmmmm.

Life imitates art, or does art imitate life.

I bet Kirk was really pissed when Spock stole the Enterprise. I think
he’d already scheduled dinner and a nightcap with Miss Piper.

Number One is hot. So’s Veena.

I like the hewn-from-the-living-rock viewscreens that the Talosians have.
It’s like a Flintstones motif.

Darn it, they cut out the scene with Spock getting giddy as a schoolgirl
over the singing flowers in the Talos IV flashback.

OK here are some of the updated effects shots… Including the AMAZING zoom into the bridge. My only quibble with it, is the turbo lift is at the 1 o’clock position and not the 12 o’clock position. I know it’s a nitpick, but it’s still the most amazing thing they have done to date…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY-3lYxSL9I

Much thanks.

My God I love this show.

Thank you so much for the captures, Trekmovie and Kelvington. As a Northern Irish fan I have no way of viewing the episodes until well after the airdate, so the photo and video captures of the vfx reels are a great way of catching up on what Team Okuda have treated us to this week!

I like the way the series model was updated to shy away from the main viewing screen being a window, to a holographic projector essentially.

It’s a true testament to Roddenberry, Jefferies , et al. that even during the short time that passed between production of pilots, these talented individuals were already considering what was immediately dated in appearance.

Notice the elimination of the Swan like communication/viewers protruding from the Captain’s chair and various stations. (Those always reminded me of the Martian War Machine from Pal’s 50’s classic, I always expected red sparkler effects to shoot from it and hit a crewman in the face)

Lasers were updated to the acronym PHASERS, and the Enterprise bridge was given a fresh coat of paint to more readily take advantage of the advent of color television sets.

One thing I’m curious about, has the ceiling of the Constitution class bridge ever been diagramed in a blueprint or schematic in publications?
We have seen the refit ceiling with the green dome sensor unit, but never the original. Undoubtedly it would be similar in appearance and function-
the interplanetary sensor dome feeds information into the above head dome then transmits the information into the Enterprise computer core residing in the shaft below the main helm and navigation console.

Fascinating.

There was never an actual ceiling built (or needed), afaik. But we did see a small part of the ceiling in TAS (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Automatic_bridge_defense_system).

This has been one of the best remastered episodes I’ve seen thus far. The nightime shot of Starbase 11 with the people walking around was fantastic.

Loved the color tweaks on Pike’s Enterprise bridge.

Its a relay good remastered episode !!!

Has somebody the trailer for this wunderfull episode??!!

What color tweaks?

Everyone go watch the starship exeter Tressuarian intersection !!!!! In The teaser titles opening scene they did their own zoom into the bridge effect and it is really really good. The naccles are really good as well. MUST GO SEE UPON ORDERS OF THE ALL MIGHTY SHATNER!!!! Exeter is the best of the fan films hands down. Well the Tressurian Intersection anyway (we’ll have to forgive the savage empire it was their first try and still has some very nice moments all the same) This new effort never ceases to amaze me.

Starshipexeter.com to view the movies and exeterstudio.com for behind the scenes info

This was the first time I noticed the crewman with the bandage on his neck. Even when they beam down, it’s on the left side of his neck. Wonder what the back story for that was?

Great great stuff on this one. The shots of Starbase 11 are great, as are the shots of Kirk’s and Pike’s Enterprises (the zoom into the bridge was seamless). About the only minor letdown was the shot of the starbase shuttlecraft as it had a washed out and flat look. But overall, these remastered shows are really breathing new life into the series and make watching again it a fresh experience.

That is a nice push in on the Starship Exeter, but even they fall victim to the dreaded TURBO LIFT SYNDROME!! If you turn our bridge or theirs so that the turbo lift is in the proper place then you run the risk that Kirk and company have been facing about 30 degrees to port all these years when they look at the view screen. I’m shocked no one ever mentioned this before.

Lots to like in this one, but my two favorite shots are the “bridge dome” shot and the view of the nacelles from the rear. I’ve always wanted to see the main bridge viewer show us this angle. A very nice and creative addition!

In reply to Kelvington’s post. The back story in in The Cage and actually in this episode as well. They refer to their fight on Rigel. This is where they are coming from when they end up on Talos IV.

Also, did anyone notice in Pikes quarters the window isn’t coloured anymore and it’s a nice moving starfield?

The Starbase 11 night shot was cool.

#28 - What color tweaks?

In the original Cage episode, the window in Pike’s quarters was some sort of colour. I think like pink or something. They remastered it to show a starfield.

er sorry about that. the message thingy had your name in it for some reason.

The comment mentioned the bridge, not Pike’s quarters.

The turbolift offset angle on the bridge set is explained at the following link:

http://www.startrekhistory.com/restoration/bridge.html

What is not explained, however, is why the turbolift “nub” on the filming model was not offset the same amount. Seems it would have been an easy modification to make. I just watched the DVR recording of this week’s episode. I’m so knocked out by the restoration of the film footage. It’s like seeing the episode for the first time. Outstanding!

Ok, now TELL me the new effects in THIS episode were anything short of awesome!

The Enterprise had weight…and probably looked the best I have seen her in these remastered episodes.

Talos IV looked great…the Starbase…looked perfect. Only nit I have is…we see that ringed moon in the sky, but why isn’t it in the orbital shots? Seems like we should see it at least once…

TTM

^42, so the real explanation is that it’s a cheat because it looks better despite making less sense. If Star Trek were a dramatization of a real starship, when you visited the real ship you’d see Uhura’s module swapped with the turbolift module. The doors would then be directly behind Kirk’s chair. We’re just not supposed to overthink this.

The enterprise looke fab but they should’ve spent a bit more time on the shuttlecraft as it looked pretty bad IMHO…

Another great job. It’s like taking Clairiton(sp). Vina’s and Pike’s eyes were a dazzeling blue. A little overuse of the same shot of Enterprise traveling towards Talos.

I can’t say much that hasn’t already been said, but it truely was OUTSTANDING! Great work all around.

Have we ever gotten official word if “The Cage” is also being remastered? This episode makes me REALLY hope that it will be…I mean most of it allready is done! But, I really want a good look at that push in on the ship and the bridge desolve. Besides that “The Cage” is a great episode in its own right.

Thank you, Kelvington, for the youtube clips. That bridge shot blew my fragile little mind.

Just saw Kelvingston’s VFX reel from The Menagerie (Part I), and I have to say, they got it right.

The zoom into the bridge dome was really fantastic, and the window shots in the Starbase actually looked believable, but retained the original design elements and aesthetics as the impressionistic cardboard cutout backdrops from before.

All in all, THIS is what I like to see from this project.

CBS Digital, thank you.

According to the great “Behind the scenes at CBS Digital” article “The Cage” will be remastered but it will be the last episode the team does so we’ll have to wait until 2008 to see it.

Wow, people are talking about Trek like it’s brand new. Love it! Kelvington, congrats on spotting the bandage. He must be one of the “seven wounded” from Pike’s previous encounter with the nasty (recreated on Talos.) It’s details like that that help make these episodes fresh all over again. Personally, I love to see the facial expressions (not just Shatner, Kelley’s a big ole ham, too) that don’t show up on the older prints. It’s wild.

Hey… does anyone have a clear look at the name of the Starbase 1 shuttle? It’s in the same red script as ‘Galileo 7,’ but I can’t make out the name. Wondered if it’s the ‘Okuda,’ or something fun.

Also — yes, having an enormous ringed planet or moon four feet away in the sky is a tad dramatic. Looks great, thinks silly.

#47. Yes, The Cage is being remastered. In fact I think it was talked about in the “Behind the Scenes” article that was published on here a week ago.

All I can say is…he** yeah!!!!!

Re: Bandage

Yes, several of Pike’s men were wounded and a few were killed in a skirmish with hostiles a few days earlier. This is also why Pike asks the crewman if he’s “up to” joining the landing party on Talos IV.

This has to be one of the best remastered shows done to date! Thanks to the crew at CBS Digital!

The pitch down and push zoom into Pike’s Enterprise bridge was excellent. I like that the perspective angle shift from a higher angle to the lower live action angle was seemlessly worked out! Passing through the clear done atop of the bridge was well done!

The shuttle scraft wasn’t bad. I also was glad to see that the shot from Pike’s Enterprise viewscreen still show the approach to Talos IV was close to as fast as the original. An effect that was still well done in 1965.

Nice surprises in the reverse angle viewscreen shot and the porthole on Pike’s quarters. Can’t wait to see the Cage!

The retained effects of the Talos IV footage still holds up well as I think it looked untouched. I refer the knock-out gas used on Pike and the phaser (Laser) blasts on the elevator door is still the old animation. The decision to leave that was a good one, that effect may be old, but it works!

re: #52 - What’s silly about having a big ringed planet looming in the sky? Looks to me like Starbase 11 is on one of the planet’s moons.

(Speaking of which, I loved the other planetary moons that we can now see in the shot).

That was my thought also that the starbase was not on a planet, but a satellite of the ringed planet.

WOW! That episode was WICKED COOL!! The way they dip into the Bridge was … WOW!

I didn’t catch the name of the shuttle either, but aren’t they usually scientists?

CBS-D Amazing work!! LOVED that aft view! And the night-time shot was wicked cool too! I saw who I think is Okuda in the blue shirt in the day shot. I don’t know what Rossi looks like, but the article from CBS-D says they are all in it. How cool would THAT be! Nice work everyone. Keep up the good work!!

Kelvington thanks for posting your video. I would like to make it an official TrekMovie download…can you email me and we can arrange and FTP.

and this kind of help is something that we are looking for here. Ideally we would like to find someone with some technical savvy who gets the show early on Saturday and can FTP a copy to us.

regardless I plan on putting together screenshots and a vid in about 12 hours (after it finally airs in Los Angeles)

I watched The Cage on TVLand very recently. The “wand gas” is the same but the hand phasers looked better than I remember them. Does someone know if they were redone?

I have a handful of screenshots from “Menagerie: Remastered - Part 1″ posted to my blog.

Say … does anyone have any recommendations on software that can let you “leaf through” and grab individual frames from a Media Center file and/or a DVD-RW recorded on a stand-alone deck?

You know, the funny thing is for years I thought the effect in the cage was pure movie, eg the camera could “see” things and walk through walls. Never occurred to me that there was huge dome on top of the Enterprise bridge

Oh, and speaking of which … something I’ve been meaning to ask.

Of course we all know the big “production model” of Enterprise NCC-1701 is on permanent display in the gift shop of the Smithsonian’s Air & Space Museum in Washington.

BUT …

Does anyone know if the “pilot” model still exists and where it may be hiding?

The pilot model is the same model, modified to the current configuration.

I believe that’s not entirely incorrect - some of the pilot shots were done with a three foot model. It’s the one seen in the publicity shots of the actors holding the model. It was in the possession of the Roddenberry family. It was loaned out and never returned.

Good write up here -
http://www.startrekhistory.com/restoration/bluescreen.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2RadDNxF1s

new effects for the menagerie

Sound Effects –
One of the more well known omissions in Trek history is Commodore Mendez’s reaction during Fleet Captain Pike’s abduction. He responds “Mendez here, what is it?!” — but there is no Alert or Communication “Whistle”. I thought this would surely be corrected — to my surprise no sound effect was added — at least not that I heard.

Interesting the added “Phaser sound” to the old Laser Pistols. Not substituted, just overlaid with the previous sound effect.

Vina’s fade-out is now confined to a smaller section (not the entire half of the screen). Also the “Theodore Haskins & Party” fade was a nice touch. Overall, Very, very nice work. The future looks bright.

Back in the 80’s I saw the original Enterprise model hanging in the Smithsonian. It was pretty impressive, if not smaller than I had imagined.

I didn’t realize until just a few weeks ago that this very same model had been “completely restored” back in the early 1990’s.

After searching the net for images of the restored model, I was surprised and disappointed to see the results of this so called “restoration”. Sad to say, the model of the original enterprise, as we all remember from the original series has been ruined!

Look at the Enterprise in the screenshots and compare it to the restored model in Washington DC.

Here’s the link: http://members.aol.com/IDICPage/Enterprise1991.htm

What a travesty!

Mike

#67 Thanks as always Joe and to Matt for the images in this article.

CBS DIGITAL ROCKS!!!

Thank you thank you thank you for this incredible contribution. The Menagerie is a fantastic pair of episodes, and now it plays like a TV movie, with full effects and real tension. As a lot of people before me have said, the shot into Pike’s Enterprise was fantastic. Starbase 11 looks excellent too (thanks for keeping the same aesthetic but making it cleaner and with more depth). Everything seems to be coming together for CBS Digital. I am dying to get these episodes on DVD.

Thanks to the video clip on YouTube I finally see the bridge transition that is an awsome piece of work, major kudos to the CBS team!

This episode has some really impressive visuals. The new Ship shots both
Kirks and Pikes Enterprise. The new Star Base shots and the flyover and
into the dome of Pikes ship was marvelous. Even the new shuttlecraft shots
were cool. The orbital shots of Talos 4 were also great. I can hardly wait for
pt.2 next week. Its nice to have something to look forward to watching on TV
again.

#66 Thanks for that great link!

I was very impressed by the studio photos of the enterprise model. Very cool!

Mike

This was really fun to watch . All of the re-done shots were great. One thing I would have liked to have seen was the room where Spock sends the fake transmission (which was simply a redress of the E’s engineering room) extended digitally and make it much larger or extended further. The forced perspective engines are covered with a blue wall of some sort. They could have inserted something there as well. Maybe a bunch of computers that extend much further into the distance. This is simply something on my wish list and in no way am I disappointed with this episode. I thought CBS-D did a great job on this one. Can’t wait for part 2!!

Why at night would the Saturn like planet still be in the same place in the sky? If the planet/moon whatever the starbase was on had rotated…

The ringed planet wasn’t in the same place in the sky at night. If you look at it, it’s to the left a bit more.

#68 This goes back to the Vina and Dr. Haskins Party fade outs. None of the YouTube.com links include these. There are small segments — but they are New.

honestly some of the effects for the fan show “starship exeter” are better than some that CBS Digital has produced lately…

Josh, regarding your inquiry in posting 26:
The only schematics I’ve found of the Constitution-class bridge showing the dome are those published by Franz Joseph in his Star Trek Technical Manual. They show the upper space sensor platform above the bridge as Deck 0, with a notation on one diagram (and in the set of Enterprise blueprints he made which Roddenberry endorsed) that it is “transparent to all forms of electromagnetic radiation.” Below that is a separate and smaller bridge dome. I’ve scanned one of the diagrams and placed it online at http://meador.org/bridge.gif

The “Cage” bridge fly-in shot was un-FREAKING-believable! JUST FANTASTIC! I just wish it was full screen so we could see it in all its glory. Also, I love that they turned that weird green panel above Pike’s head in his quarters into a window. The Captain deserves to have a window in his quarters.

Three sideways smileyfaces = very good

#81

I agree completely, I think they should put windows showing outer space or exteriors whenever and wherever they can. It adds so much more realism to any scene.

My only nitpick is the dome fly in shot. Since they recreated a CG bridge to fit inside the bridge dome for the shot, the CBS team no doubt realized the turbo lift was misaligned. My hunch is they felt the cheat of having Pike and the crew facing “forward” was more important than the reality of the ship’s true architecture. Frankly, it was the wrong artistic call. The whole point of Remastered is to “fix” things like this. Trek fans have known since the Franz Joseph blueprints in the 70’s that the bridge is off axis and to not correct it lowers the grade significantly on an otherwise excellent shot. The “camera” could’ve easily swung around the front of the Enterprise a bit more before the drop through the dome. By choosing to cheat the shot instead of make it accurate the CBS team are playing an insulting “most people will never notice” game. In truth, the people who DO notice things like this are Remastered’s core audience — the ones freeze framing the new shots and looking closely for details. I was really looking forward to a smooth signature shot for this episode, and the CBS team came close but they fumbled unnecessarily in my opinion. I’m hoping that they revisit the shot for THE CAGE and make a different artistic choice.

Either that, or someone believed that it was the correct artistic call, Franz Joseph notwithstanding. Personally, having the crew facing forward is the “reality” of the ship. What ship designer in their right mind would have the captain and crew rotated 36 degrees off to the side?

The bridge fly-in shot was very nearly perfect! Huge KUDOS to everyone who worked on that shot!!

I’ve been watching the remastered eps along with some of the eps that TVLand is currently showing, which are not remastered.

I haven’t watched TOS in what must be 20 years, because I watched it all the time as a kid. (I’m 39 now). As a kid, I remember thinking “Where’s the (Gorn) ship?” while looking at an empty view screen in “Arena”. I remember thinking “Where’s the beam?” while watching Scotty trying to cut into the door in “The Naked Time.” I remember thinking, “Why does every planet that the Enterprise vists look the same?” Etc.

As imperfect as the remastered eps may be, watching TOS on TV Land pulls me right out of show–not good.

I’d like to see all the hand phaser effects redone and the transporter effect cleaned up. I’d like to hear the swish and the rumble of the Enterprise passing by put in the episodes where there is no sound. I want to see disintegrating effect on that poor red-shirt in “Arena” to be redone–it looks terrible. Redoing Norman’s tummy plate was a good idea. How about redoing the communicator in “The Menagerie, Part 1″ so there are no resistors?

Kudos to the remastering team. I just want more. So my 3 year old will watch with me when he is a little older.

#85: Um, we can SEE where the turbo lift doors are on the set and where the shaft is on the exterior of the dome! THAT is reality. The bridge IS off axis, always has been. But I guess I shouldn’t believe my own lyin’ eyes. Franz Joseph was only drawing what was present in the show. In a ship with artificial gravity and inertia dampers, cheating the shot so that the crew faces “forward” is silly.

“That is a nice push in on the Starship Exeter, but even they fall victim to the dreaded TURBO LIFT SYNDROME!! If you turn our bridge or theirs so that the turbo lift is in the proper place then you run the risk that Kirk and company have been facing about 30 degrees to port all these years when they look at the view screen. I’m shocked no one ever mentioned this before.”

Actually, it gets discussed quite a bit both in reference to “The Cage” and to the homage shot at the beginning of “Starship Exeter.” As far as the “Exeter” version is concerned, we were aware of the turbolift rotation issue but that was the angle that we wanted.

#87, I will concede that it’s a dilemma. Yes, the location of the turbolift doors don’t match the location of the bump on the dome. But “fixing” the set by rotating the bridge is (to me, at least) an absurdity. Matt Jefferies was a pilot. There’s no way he would have had his pilots sitting sideways in the cockpit.

If it were up to me, I would rather have the location of the doors not match than have the crew flying sideways. Your mileage may vary, of course.

what a day! i love that show and best new effect!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Bailey: Good to see you posting here. For the record, I think the bridge fly-in shot in Starship Exeter, as well as in TOS-R “The Cage” are BOTH fantastic.

Thought you guys might be interested, I did a side by side comparison of an MPEG 4 video from the DVD and the MPEG 2 video recording off the air. The night scenes on Starbase 11 of the buildings out of Mendez window are the same as the original. The difference is the sky is darker and the buildings are blurred a bit. This was enough to reduce their outline.

Ron Jon, thanks. And thanks to everyone who’s had kind words for “Starship Exeter.”

BTW, we wound up building a partial CG bridge and doing some frame-by-frame photoshopping on the live action to make our fly-in work as well (only about 80 percent of the Bridge existed on the soundstage at any given time). And that opening shot nearly killed me (he said, self-dramatizing).

#92

I thought there was something different there, but I couldn’t pinpoint it. Thanks for that!!

I also enjoyed the occasional ship buzzing by. That was a nice touch.

I agree with Ron (#87). Regardless of inertial damping and such, it was certainly never Roddenberry’s intention for the bridge to be off center-axis. Franz Joseph merely attempted to match his post-series Enterprise “design” with the established external ship architecture…an architecture that seemed inconsistent with the bridge set itself. We would have been better off if Joseph had dealt with this problem by depicting the bridge AND turbolift within the circular dome, and by revealing in his “blueprints” the external protrusion to be entirely unrelated to the turbolift.

I have allways held that the bridge faced forward but understand the argument for the other. I like it facing forward, allthough never thought of the escape pod idea. Something I was thinking also allthough not sure if it would work could be maybe a connection point for when the ship is in starbase where the turboshaft could be connected to an oppoisite one in dock allowing the turbocar to pass between. Given that its the first shot (allthough not shown till later) its the first shot cannon-wise allthough there are cases where its changed (James R. Kirk).

Here are a couple of pictures to a model I allways thought was really cool (well since the first time I saw it)…of an “Ulitmate Bridge” Model.
http://www.zizolfo.com/images/P1000535-33.jpg

http://www.zizolfo.com/images/P1000535-33.jpg

and a link to the page they are on…
http://www.zizolfo.com/models/bridge.html

Apparenty I posted the same pic link twice… here is the one I was going for.

http://www.zizolfo.com/images/P1000537-33.jpg

Re: DB and Exeter.

Since you’re here, can you tell us anything about the status of Act 3?

Pleaselordpleaselord.

At the fine-tuning stage. Could be a Christmas thing.

Bear in mind that Act Three is not the end…that would be Act Four.

As I write this, I have a little over an hour to wait until I get to see the TOSR “Menagerie, Part l” and I’m going crazy! I have a question about the FX vid posted above, though. Nothing of Kirk’s and Mendez’s shuttle landing appears above. Did they cut the shot, or was it just not included on the vid? I’m dying to see that shuttle landing re-done.

Kirk must be jealous. Pike had a window in his quarters when he commanded the Enterprise. When the ship was refitted, Kirk was cheated out of that.

The one thing that has ALWAYS bothered me about the TOS bridge set was that either the turbolift doors or the main viewscreen was off the bridge centerline. Why didn’t they just put the turbolift doors directly behind Kirk’s chair? That would have cleanly divided the bridge into two symmetical halves, giving Kirk a better view of all the command stations.

As for the bump aft of the bridge on the Enterprise exterior, I always assumed that it was the protrusion for the turbolift tube going up to the bridge, but the car itself had to slide forward into the dome to reach the bridge. That’s the way I imagined it anyway. I’m sure other people have different ideas.

SPECIAL MESSAGE TO DB: I’m a huge fan of “Starship Exeter.” The work you guys put into that project is incredible and the care and time you take really shows. My wife and I saw “The Savage Empire” a few years ago and we both liked it, but the stuff we’ve seen so far for “The Tressaurian Intersection” is miles beyond what you did in “Empire.” I am truly impressed, and frankly very envious of what your team has accomplished. Congratulations on your exemplary work and please keep it coming.

Much better. Excellent job.
(except for the shuttle craft)

If we are using Franz Josephs blueprints as the definitive reference for the Constitution class, then the Turbolift being in the back quarter and turbolift cab bulb on the exterior directly rear are CORRECT.

There is no error.

There is a service corridor surrounding the circumfrance of the main bridge.
The turbolift pivots around to the rear, goes back into the exterior housing, then straight down into the secondary hull.
It’s the same principle as the refit Enterprise bridge, only missing one turbolift car.

^^^^^

Did anyone honestly think the coldness of space is directly behind the bridge consoles with nothing in between?

That would be disastrous engineering. Not only is there a service corridor, but another 2 ft. of thick bulkhead before you reach the exterior.

I just saw “The Menagerie Pt. 1″ And, hold your breath folks. I really liked it. Now, before you pick up your jaws from the floor, come on over to trekenhanced.com and read more…

Here’s hoping I don’t wake up and find myself in a plexiglass cage.

Nice Josh

Quick OT question for the Exeter folk - did GalaxyQuest steal “Quincy” (as the middle name of the Captain- from you or is it a homage to the spoof?

Who are the new inserts in the starbase 11 matte shots?

Are all the personnel on the planet new inserts?

I don’t remember the original shots to compare.

Just wondering.

Oh also, after seeing the new FX reel on Youtube left me much like Pike at the end of that reel, mouth open, thinking …”Holy %@$!”.

Impressive.

The Gregster made it clear with his posting and the link he gave as to why the turbolift inside doesn’t match outside. I think this disparity was corrected when they decided to add the secondary turbolift to the refit in TMP in order to correct the asymmetry. Compare the first downward angle at

http://www.startrekhistory.com/restoration/bridge.html

with this picture

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=6

The turbolift behind Sulu is in almost the exact position as the single one on the original bridge. The bridge and crew always faced forward- it was the turboshaft that was off-axis.

“Quick OT question for the Exeter folk - did GalaxyQuest steal “Quincy” (as the middle name of the Captain- from you or is it a homage to the spoof?”

Completely coincidental. “John Quincy” Garrovick is, as far as I know, a reference to “John Quincy Adams.”

One of the effects I loved that I don’t believe has been mentioned yet is the depth of movement in the windows on Starbase 11. When the camera moves around Pike in his chair, the city in the background pans with depth instead of just looking like a 2-D painting.

Also, yes. I would have liked to see the ringed planet from orbit.

I wonder if more changes will be made when The Cage is remastered and if those changes will be added to this.

Only complaint of the episode (and I feel bad, because this was great). The projections of Cage footage on the viewscreen still look like projections. They could re-overlay this footage as they did with Spock’s tricorder in City on the Edge of Forever.

Great Job CBS team.

The CBS Digital crew knocks it out of the park a second week running! I think the full potential of the project has been realized in this week’s episode. Again I have to single out the matte work, which had me grinning from ear to ear. The best elements of the original paintings were maintained while enhancing the illusion of depth and space.

A few of Trek’s matte paintings (i.e. the earliest ones like Rigel 7 from “The Cage/Menagerie” and the dilithium cracking station from “Where No Man Has Gone Before”) are, in my eyes, nearly perfect and wouldn’t need touching. But in cases like this, the originals were a bit too obvious and didn’t match all that well with the live footage, so kudos to a job well done.

And that shot of Spock on the bridge of the earlier 1701, silhouetted against the new Talos IV — breathtaking!!

I didn’t think they could pull off that bridge push-in shot, but they did and it looked great.
And hey, I’m a nitpicker and the whole turbolift thing didn’t bother me- I was too amazed re-running that beautiful shot to notice!
Great job, CBS. Can’t wait for “The Cage.”

Now on to my final nit: I swear I read somewhere that the REAR nacelle domes were replaced during one of the renovations. Could this be the reason that the CG Ent. domes are too small? They took measurments off the 11-footer, but does it now have improperly sized “engine domes?” (Check original footage to see what I mean.)

Regarding the off-axis asymetry of the turbo lift and the direction the bridge faces. I get the sense that some of you guys may be fairly young? That’s not meant as a knock, in the early 70’s this was explained. I also think the 1968 book, the Making of Star Trek explained it too.

The reason the bridge and turbo lift are not in alignment was because Matt Jeffries designed it that way so you see the doors open and people enter and exit from the point of view of the camera as it was mostly placed to the side quarter angle of the Captains chair. It was driven for artistic reasons and to get a better visual image.

Some books — sorry, don’t remember which — point out that the main veiw screen on the bridge is just that… a screen, rather than a window. It wouldn’t, then, matter that everyone is looking 36 degrees off true. Plus, AG, so you wouldn’t feel the diff.

The off axis elevator is as explained about an artistic decision. It was noted in Franz Jospeph’s SF Tech Manual and Constitution blueprints in the 1970s. His rational was that the bridge actually was offset. I prefer the idea that the elevator takes a jog to the left after it leaves the bridge station.

http://www.photontide.org.yu/img/st/images/enterier/eo-bridge.jpg

CBS Digital really outdid themselves on this episode. The “Cage” era Enterprise sequence was very, VERY well done, and the Starbase 11 scenes were simply gorgeous.

This episode REALLY makes me lament the fact that we can’t see the new F/X work in high definition. Mark Cuban needs to get the series onto HDNet **pronto**.

Fantastic work, CBS Digital! A+.

Well, these are some nice rationalizations for why the turbo lift doors were incorrectly aligned, but they’re rationalizations nonetheless. Google “Enterprise bridge blueprints”. Look through ANY of the material generated over the last 40 years. The bridge has ALWAYS been off axis with the turbo lift to the rear. Even in the Franz Joseph designs — the ones INCLUDING the ring hallway Josh talks about — has the lift in the rear position. www-rnks.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~tweimann/tmp/bridge-blueprints/USS%20Enterprise%20-%201701%20-%20ST%20-%20The%20Cage.jpg There has never been a hint anywhere that the lift is really off center. CBS either made a mistake or they decided to cheat the shot in order to make the crew seem to face forward. If it was a mistake, I hope they revisit the shot before they air THE CAGE. If it was a cheat, shame on them for choosing artistic license over accuracy.

That all being said, how cool is it to even discuss Trek again!

The other way to look at it is shame on Franz Joseph for choosing a fannish rationalization over aircraft logic (which was Matt Jefferies’ term). I love Franz Joseph’s work, but I happen to disagree with him on this one issue. I’m glad that CBS-D saw it my way, and I hope they do NOT change it.

Their was once a day, before geekdom, when story tellers dared tell stories. After many seasons, the tellers would collect costumes and small props to add to the excitement of the story. If his captivated audiences thought enough of his stories, they would band together and build for him a permanent place to tell his stories with seats and a stage and sometimes, make-believe sets to increase the excitement of the story even more than their imaginations allowed.

When did story telling become some dreary exercise is psuedo-scientific mumbo-jumbo such as, “cheating ‘accuracy’” at the expense of artistry? Stories are told for their intrinsic worth — the moral of the story. Nerdy nitpicking is for those who lack comprehension of the story’s point.

Well, perhaps we can all agree the bridge crew positon axis and turbo lift location was done for a TV show 40 years ago in order to make it look good on TV. In all feature films and TV shows that follow, this turbo lift was relocated and shifted so the bridge crew does face forward.

In reviewing the original Menagerie on DVD, it’s clear there that the CBS team did exactly the same thing that was done in 1965, the turbo lift location on the Enterprise model does not match the live action position. The crew also appears to face forward and the turbolift is off axis. Their decision was to do what was originally done. I think it’s a fine recreation.

Could somebody please confirm that the Stabase 11 shuttlecraft is labeled “Picasso”? And can we have a screenshot that shows the name, please? We’re discussing what to do with that “newly named” shuttle at Memory Alpha at the moment.

“Fannish rationalization”? The exterior of the model has a tube for the elevator. He drew the bridge to match what the model builders and set designers MADE. “Aircraft logic”. Um, there’s no AIR in space. There’s no gravity. Therefore, “aircraft logic” - such as positioning people seated forward in a ship that goes faster than light — is ludicrous. Why have them seated forward? Because of the acceleration that would smear them into jelly the moment the Enterprise began to move? Ron, the off axis bridge has been established Trek canon for decades. There are no blueprints or approved franchise material anywhere to suggest otherwise. Yes, it is a shame that CBS chose to cheat the shot for illogical “logic” rather than say, “Hmm, maybe we should match the elevator doors to where the model shows the elevator should go.”

DipThong (116), it was Franz Joseph who attempted to rationalize and reconcile the interior/exterior design discrepancy by throwing the bridge off axis. Like-minded fans intent on achieving harmony between the exterior and interior design embraced and perpetuated Joseph’s ill-conceived notion, but Roddenberry and Jefferies certainly never intended this. There is nothing in original Star Trek writings or drawings to suggest an off-axis bridge, and on it’s face, it’s an absurd concept.

I LIKE THE NEW CBS REDOING SO FAR W/THE NEW MODEL!

CANT WAIT TO SEE SEASON THREE!

THE BEST FX SHOTS AND STUFF WERE DONE THAT YEAR BY THE NEW PRODUCERS FRED FREIBUGER AND CO!

IMO

JULIAN

“Well, perhaps we can all agree the bridge crew positon axis and turbo lift location was done for a TV show 40 years ago in order to make it look good on TV. In all feature films and TV shows that follow, this turbo lift was relocated and shifted so the bridge crew does face forward.”

This is in fact the case.

Given a choice between what works artistically and “accuracy” when the reference in question is both imaginary and unestablished — certainly, choose the artistic license. Most of the time, anyway.

What Franz Joseph established in his drawings, BTW, isn’t relevant to what was done in 1964 or what was intended because A) he did his work over a decade later after the series had been cancelled and B) he didn’t work on those drawings in consultation with Roddenberry, Jefferies or anyone else involved in the series. He himself stated that quite often when the choice was between something that he believed made sense and doing it exactly as it appeared on screen he chose the way that made sense.

Now, “The Cage” zooms in on the Bridge and shows the viewscreen to be forward along the centerline with the turbolift doors offset 36 degrees to port. The artists at CBS Digital chose to recreate this rather than substitute their own judgment. Given that Roddenberry et al could probably have had the stage model of the Enterprise shot at a different angle if they so chose *and didn’t*, the CBS Digital people made a completely reasonable — and respectful — decision.

I fully expect them to do the same when it’s time to insert this shot into “The Cage” and would be a little disappointed if they don’t.

Oh, and just to be confusing — I agree that, for blueprinting purposes, the turbolift elevator is located where Joseph drew it. A rear-center-line turbolift is just about required by the dimensions of the Bridge and how it fits into the dome as scaled on the eleven-foot model of the ship.

Nonetheless, “The Cage” shows it differently and that’s that and should remain that. I care not a fig for consistency in this instance.

So, was the shuttle really called “Picasso”?

#122: Franz Joseph didn’t reconcile the interior/exterior design discrepancy by throwing the bridge off axis, the model and set were built that way. He drew what the designers designed. The model shows where the elevator is and the set has the doors. Put them together and VIOLA! Yes, they built the set with the command chair off axis to allow better composition for the cinematographers but they certainly knew they were tilting the command chairs off axis. And I suspect they didn’t care because there’s no physical reason why the three center chairs MUST face the bow on a starship (as opposed to an AIRcraft). If sitting forward was such a necessity, why aren’t ALL the bridge chairs facing the screen? The off-axis bridge isn’t an “ill-conceived notion”, it’s a fact based on the physical set and model. Tell me, what’s the “absurd concept” about three people among a crew of 400 plus sitting pointed slightly to the left instead of straight ahead? Does the entire crew need to stand looking toward the bow of the ship when it’s in motion. Do they lean to the side during turns? If “aircraft logic” applies, where are the freakin’ wings on the E?

#125 DB: Just because THE CAGE effects artists got the lift location wrong in their original work doesn’t mean CBS must retain the inconsistency. CBS could’ve fixed it and either made a mistake or decided to cheat despite their own lying eyes. Normally, I don’t care that somethings are cheated. In this case, however, the interior set and the exterior model are supposed to married together side by side — and they aren’t. The shot itself is beautiful. It’s just wrong architecturally.

Not to belabor the point, but Star Trek canon with regard to the bridge orientation is what was represented on film in the original pilot (and hence in The Menagerie), and what CBS faithfully honored in their re-creation of the fly-in shot. That is, the bridge clearly faces forward on film, reflecting the intentions of the series creator. In the end, Franz Joseph is just another fan who put their unique spin on the design (no pun intended) nearly ten years later. If there is a “cheat” as Dip Thong puts it, it is in Joseph’s blueprints, not in the work of CBS.

Ah, how I miss the days of the nacelle cap controversy…

Responding to #127, do not forget “The Immunity Syndrome,” when Kirk referred to feeling a “forward lurch.” Was Shatner instructed to act this out as if the bridge were off-center? I doubt it, considering that this nutty notion wouldn’t be born for another ten years. Yes, the Enterprise had inertial dampers, but as in this episode (and in many others), there were times when the crews felt jolts, or were pressed in their seats during acceleration (”The Naked Time” is another I believe). In these times, we never saw the actors all facing toward the right-hand side of the bridge. They instead faced the viewscreen. They faced forward. The real question is, why didn’t they have some type of seat restraints for these situations?!

How do we explain the change in the size of the saucer dish by the way? Is there canon about why it got smaller? Is this why Kirk lost his window?

To Lao3D (#129), if it helps, I do agree with Dr. Image in post #111 that the REAR nacelle domes remain ever slightly too small, and most likely for the reasons he cited. As for the forward domes, they now look fantastic, and this controversy is probably history. Of course, we could debate the inconsistency of the red, spiked caps and the spinning-light caps which persisted throughout the series. Which are “correct?” Which should be considered canon? Anyone?

IIRC, and I don’t have a copy handy to confirm this I’m afraid, didn’t The Making of Star Trek include a diagram of the bridge set as well as plans for the Enterprise herself? I believe it reproduced the plaque to the left of that %$#@ turbolift and also had a comparison with the US Navy aircraft carrier.

Since The Making of Star Trek was researched, written and published while Trek was still on the air, it seems to me whatever is in there ought to settle this silliness once and for all time.

My only beef with the new FX in this one was the view out Pike’s window. They didn’t account for camera jiggle, so sometimes the view out the window appears to jitter within the window frame.

Its been argued that there is no reason the bridge couldn’t be offset but for what reason would it (in terms of a real ship) have any reason to be? I know it was done for artistic reasons in the show but if one was to sit down and design it as a real ship I would think having it face forward would be the logical choice rather than rotating at some off angle. Its a way to rationalize the inconsitancy between the set and the model just as there are rationalizations for the other.

Also I recal cases where the crew are jarred backward seemingly as a result of accelleration (maybe the dampeners weren’t at full power) not at an angle but as if the ship were moving forward with the bridge facing that way.

#133, Whitfield’s “Making of Star Trek” included a reproduction of several Matt Jefferies’ drawings of the Enterprise, including a very rudimentary cross-sectional view, as well as a comparison view with the aircraft carrier Enterprise. I have larger copies of these drawings I obtained back in the day from Lincoln Enterprises, and I will check them tonight. Thanks for reminding me. As for the plaque, I never found anything in original-period Star Trek publications which documented the plaque, and if anyone knows of an original photograph, I would love to see it. In later years, from film clips, I finally discerned that it read:

U.S.S. ENTERPRISE
STARSHIP CLASS
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF.

I stand corrected KT (#132) I now prefer this controversy. I feel we have to standardize references to it for future threads, though. My selections:

1. Turbolift Controversy
2. Bridge Bump Blues
3. Enterprise Dome Scandal

Besides isn’t it common knowledge that the protusion on the exterior is actually the toilet? Accessed by a revolving wall at Uhura’s station?

It IS logical to assume so.
(We are now entering the Geekdom Nebula…)

I understand the argument as to why the bridge could be offset, as the rules of aeronautics or nautical considerations don’t apply in an environmentally controlled starship in deep space. However, I feel that having the bridge offset at 36 degrees is rather arbitrary and awkward- why not have it offset at 90 degrees to port, with the crew facing completely sideways. It would still allow for an unobstructed view for dramatic purposes a la The Undiscovered Country. It seems to me that the original Cage flyover and into the bridge got it right from the very beginning, and CBS Digital followed. I think that’s what Franz Joseph was trying to do- a decade after the fact, he was trying to explain a discrepancy that was originally created for dramatic efficiency and the producers hoped that people would ignore. And I still maintain that GR wanted to fix that once and for all by including another turbolift in TMP. Dip Thong, are you saying that as part of the refit, they said “well, why don’t we add another turboshaft and then rotate the bridge back so that it’s facing forward instead of 36 degrees to port like it’s been all these years” If they felt that it had nothing to do with control of the ship or flying in space, then why wouldn’t they leave well enough alone. Or do you feel that the refit Ent still has bridge facing off axis?

#137 - Lao3D - You are absolutely correct about the exterior protrusion near the Bridge. And yes, it was accessed by a revolving wall at Uhura’s station.

This was actually a brilliant design feature by Star Fleet engineers… they realized early on, given the strange and diverse alien foods available, that placing the toilet at a near-external part of the ship would prove very beneficial. Strangely, with all the technology available to them, there were always complaints about the ventilation system after serving plomeek soup… go figure.

Little known fact: Uhura was the keeper of the keys to the “head.” And at times she could be a bit of a bitch about passing them out in a timely manner… “Oh, wait a minute, I’ve got to send hailing frequencies.” or “Sorry, you’ll have to wait… I have a Fleet communique coming in.” You can imagine that her little power play delays didn’t sit too well after a mug of Enterprise extra-strength java.

Further, my understanding is that, in her absence during the entire “Doomsday Machine” incident, she conveniently “lost” the keys to the head. This certainly explains Commodore Decker’s prickly posture and dour demeanor.

Funny how power affects some people, huh?

This is the best I’ve seen so far. I hope all the episodes from now on get this treatment, and attention to detail. This work looks amazing. CBS have truly raised the bar for themselves now. Thank you very much for putting up the video, I keep watching it over and over. Now if they just anitmate those static bridge view screens :O)

I like the zoom in on the bridge and I don’t care if the bridge is 36 degrees off or if it is backwards or upside down. I just like the fact that Star Trek is getting some attention in regards to restoration with a little augmentation thrown in for good measure.
The Franz Joseph designs which I have had for years were a lot of fun to look at, but I never really worried about their total accuracy. It just doesn’t make any difference to me.
I also looked at the Exeter.com zoom in and thought that was pretty cool.

Picasso! Thank you so much for the close-ups and the before and after comparisons.

Again, the ringed moon looks great, but it’s very very close (or large.) Earth’s moon occupies 2 degrees of arc in the sky. (So does the sun.) The Moon has a great deal of influence as is. I really doubt what we see in the more fanciful sci-fi renderings could exist without disasterous consequences.

Having blabbed that, I love suspending disbelief for moons, tubro lifts, and hidden space potties.

“Just because THE CAGE effects artists got the lift location wrong in their original work doesn’t mean CBS must retain the inconsistency. ”

The original effects artists didn’t “get it wrong” — the original show *defines* what’s official and what’s not. “The Cage” is — awful word — *canon.” Franz Joseph is not. CBS Digital had *better* retain the intent of the producers and artists as indicated in “The Cage.”

No, “The Making Of Star Trek” doesn’t include any diagrams that make the orientation of the Bridge absolutely clear either.

Perhaps their moon really IS made of green cheese. That would allow it to be closer to the homeworld of Starbase 11.

You guys are idiots…..its a stupid turbo lift. My god, could you people argue over anything more trivial? No wonder Star Trek sucks ass right now …cause people like you care more about a turbo lift then good quality stories.

Our own moon moves away from us like an inch a year or something. Imagine how big it looked 65 million years ago and there were no devastating effects.

I LOVED that moone at night! Maybe Starfleet rigged magnatomic tractor repulsors…or something REALLY complicated like that lol. But whatever they’re using i LOVE it!

I would be great if the folks at CBS Digital are checking in here, and if they would compare these two views, which provide definitive evidence that they still don’t have the rear nacelle domes quite right:

Aft view original Enterprise (from Assignment Earth):
http://161.115.184.211/teague/trek-temp/enterprise_aft_original.jpg

Aft view new CGI Enterprise (from Menagerie):
http://161.115.184.211/teague/trek-temp/enterprise_aft_new_cgi.jpg

As you can see by comparison, the CGI domes are close in size, but still slightly too small. They also are not as reflective as the originals.

“You guys are idiots…..its a stupid turbo lift. My god, could you people argue over anything more trivial? No wonder Star Trek sucks ass right now …cause people like you care more about a turbo lift then good quality stories.”

Hey, bite me NacelleBoy.

I knew this would all happen. Once CBS got the big things down…in would rush the minutiae. This is 5 millimeters to big, the angle of this is off by 3 degrees, etc.

I dunno…but in a way it shows their success…people are running out of stuff to bitch about.

I think at this point many things in TOSR may come down to matters of taste.  

 

btw DB…call me

#145: “The original effects artists didn’t “get it wrong” — the original show *defines* what’s official and what’s not. “The Cage” is — awful word — *canon.”

Okey-dokey. Then CBS digital screwed up by not angling the floor of the bridge at the pitched non-horizonal angle. In the original footage, as we can see posted above, the transparent dome is clearly exposing the entire right side of the bridge, eliminating Spock’s science station and the communication’s station entirely. So either the dome covers a side of the bridge and not the roof, or else the floor is horribly tilted in relation to the rest of the ship. Sure, it doesn’t make sense, but maybe it’s another example of “aircraft logic”.

If we’re playing the canon game, then canon is that the turbo shaft is at the aft-most arc of the bridge dome. It’s right there on the model. It’s not an optical compositing mistake, it’s a physical reality. In order for the turbo shaft to be where CBS shows it to be, the bridge either needs to be about 1/4th smaller than shown (to make sure the shaft housing fit inside the curve of the dome) or else the shaft really does stick out the back left quarter of the dome and it’s cloaked to fool us (leaving a mystery bump at the back of the dome).

#139 Monger: ” However, I feel that having the bridge offset at 36 degrees is rather arbitrary and awkward- why not have it offset at 90 degrees to port, with the crew facing completely sideways.”

I sure would like the Okudas to weigh in on this one. What most likely happened is that the bridge interior set was designed with the offset bridge to allow for better camera angles and the FX crew built the model with the turbo shaft in what they considered the most logical place. The producers either never noticed or didn’t care about the discrepancy (most likely #2 since they had no idea the show would become a hit). In either case, there’s no reason not to tilt the three inner command stations to the off-axis position since there’s no real reason they need to be sitting forward. It’s not like they need to look out the front window to steer the ship.

“And I still maintain that GR wanted to fix that once and for all by including another turbolift in TMP.”

In The Art of Star Trek, Roddenberry is said to have added the second turbo lift in TAS in response to fans writing him asking how the crew got out if the doors got stuck. (pg 46). It’s possible the second turbo lift was added in TMP for the same reason. An interesting side note is that the Phase II Enterprise was designed with 2 turbolifts and the model was adjusted accordingly, with the exterior “bumps” offset to either side of the rear of the dome on the model (pg 60). This seems to indicate that the “bump” IS a turboshaft and, if so, then the shaft on the original ship is where every blueprint shows it to be.

” Dip Thong, are you saying that as part of the refit, they said “well, why don’t we add another turboshaft and then rotate the bridge back so that it’s facing forward instead of 36 degrees to port like it’s been all these years”

Actually, in Shane Johnson’s refit Enterprise book, he suggests that Federation starships have modular bridge decks that can easily be swapped or replaced based on mission requirements. In any event, the refit bridge seems to have been redesigned and replaced from dome to deck, allowing for the repositioning of the stations. Uhura’s station is obviously on the other side of the bridge. Other stations apparently moved as well.

Here’s a site that shows all the different bridge configurations. http://www-rnks.informatik.tu-cottbus.de/~tweimann/tmp/bridge-blueprints/ Note how far the turbo shaft extends outside the perimeter of the bridge ring. In order for that shaft to fit inside the curve of the bridge dome, the bridge itself must be much smaller and lower than shown in either The Cage or Remastered Managerie.

Hey Anthony, just for the record, I’m completely cool with CBS’s work. I love remastered and I’m pleased as punch it’s being done. That being said, it’s okay to point out where they have made mistakes.

I didn’t even notice the turbolift being off-axis until I read this thread! (and I thought I was a definite trekkie / trekker).

My 2 cents - CBS did the right thing. The crew has to be facing forward. Think about it - every time Kirk and company get pushed forward when the ship stops suddenly, they’d actually have to jolt slightly to their right. Same goes for the side to side jolts. The TOS team filmed the episodes with the assumption that they were facing forward - to change that creates a lot more headaches.

I don’t give a rat’s petoot about the flippin’ turbolift orientation. But I am dismayed that they have not used CGI to replace those offensive short skirts on the women crew members with pants. Mini-skirts in space, my GOSH!!! I’m sure Gene Roddenberry did not intend for the women to show that much leg, but budgetary constraints forced them to skimp on material. Now that we have the technology, we should be able to see the women wearing the same awesome trousers as the men.

I dug up a pic I took of the Smithsonian model I took back I think in 2003 and posted it over on my blog.

Yep … it does look as if the new CG nacelle tail caps may be a bit small.

I presume they haven’t done any more significant work to the model since I took that picture and that was teh model the CBS crew measured from.

I wonder how exactly they took the measurements.

Axinar, your pic reminds me of my disappointment the second time I saw the model at the Smithsonian, after they had smudged it all over to give it the appearance of being space-worn. When the model first went on display, it was unaltered, except for cheesy orange nacelle caps to replace the originals which were apparently lost (I have also seen a photo of the model in its arrival condition, and the nacelle caps were missing…I can’t recall whether the end caps were present in that photo)

Actually, the model was never displayed unaltered.

It arrived at the Smithsonian missing its nacelle caps and main sensor dish. Replacements were manufactured by a contractor; they were not accurate in any way. Finally, the entire model other than the top side of the saucer was given a coat of flat primer grey paint that did not match its original paint scheme.

Aside from the too-distinct weathering, the 1992 restoration was the most accurate version of the ship ever displayed at the museum. For the first time, a sensor dish that was a close match to the original was restored to it, the internal lights were made to work again — including the nacelle domes — and repairs were made to parts that had suffered damage (the deck two “teardrop” just below the bridge, carved from wood, had a wide crack right through it).

I’m surprised no one has yet noticed the completely different shape of the saucer on the original 1964 model — the bottom has a much flatter curve to it, for one thing.

That’s the three-foot study model, which was pressed into service for some pretty unconvincing effects shots in “The Cage.”

Hmmm, all this controversy over the turbo lift! LOL! Yanno, I think it was ages until those great guys who did the cutaway books for Star Wars made some sense out of the Millenium Falcon, a model versus set nightmare sometimes.
That regular door with hinges to Pike’s Starbase room was more confounding than any turboshaft bulb.

Just a random thought, and I hate to mention age…but if they are going back in time in Trek XI to show us early Kirk and Spock, they might show us Pike as well. Ray Liota, baby!!! He is an amazing actor and damn if he looks a lot like Capt. Pike. He just might be a little too old???? I don’t think so, but I know casting agents… i would cast him, but Hollywood loves 20 to 30 year olds. Any thoughts?

WAY too old…

Hey Gammans, we’re not argueing over anything more trivial than fucking nacel caps, you moron!

re: # 146 and 148 — why assume that the ringed body is the moon? I know I’m repeating myself, but it looks to me like Starbase 11 is on a moon, and the ringed thing is the planet it’s orbiting. Like how Jupiter would look if you were standing on Io (for example).

*Nothing* about the Starship Enterprise (Constitution class), has been made canon as far as deck arrangement, or schematics.

Deliberately.

The turbo shaft dilemma is no different than the Engineering deck location.

Is it in the secondary hull ala the Refit? Is it in the rear of the Primary hull near the Impulse Engines?

People that are whining about the petty minutia are missing the entire point of what was intended.

Roddenberry oft said the Starship Enterprise was an integral character and he wanted many of it’s functions left up to the imagination of the audience.

I like that. It means my mental image of the Starship Enterprise is different than anyone elses. And conversely everyone’s version is entirely different.

That’s at it should be. When they started pinning things down to the point of tedium on Next Generation is when much of the mystic and allure began being lost.

Do I really ****ing need to know a bowling alley is on deck 15 adjacent to the Chapel, just behind the storage compartments but below the ships regulation swimming pool above the billiard hall??

HELL no.

^^^^^^

The floor plan is irrelevant anyway. Every component and aspect of the ship can be swapped out or altered to accomodate visitors and guests from non Class M oxygen worlds.

The Starship Enterprise is organic, constantly evolving and changing.

A blueprint diminishes and sterilizes the noble lady.

I’d rather speculate and wonder about her bra size than read the label.

Yes, a very good point indeed of the Enterprise being an inegral character… That’s why all off the TNG movies failed, they destroyed the Enterprise-D (essentially the same as killing Picard would have been a disaster for the TNG movies). The Enterprise-D was TNG, as the original Enterprise was TOS.

#167 Josh - They had a swimming pool AND a billiard hall?

Cool beans!!!!!

#168 Bart

Did anyone on here gulp and swallow when the Enterprise D was destroyed? On the contrary, there is your fundamental difference in approach to Star Trek.

Berman- “The Enterprise D crashing is our big WOW moment of the picture.”

Wow moment? You mean reduced to a popcorn Armageddeon type special effect that doesn’t really serve the story or propell anything forward?

Contrast that peice of shit moment in Star Trek history to when the original Enterprise was destroyed over Genesis.
There wasn’t a dry eye in the house I tell you.

Kirk- “My God Bones, what have I done?”

Picard- “Problem with the Klingons Mr Laforge?”

No wonder Star Trek is on life support.

Let’s not foget those dances in the bowling alley (except for Uhura).

#171 Old School Trek Nerd:

And the ice cream socials

[See one of Olde Timey’s Big E film clips at the URL of my name!]

ALRIGHT… THAT IS JUST ABOUT F***ING ENOUGH! YEAH, NOTICE THE F***ING CAPS… YEAH, I’M F***ING SHOUTING!!!

(Deep breath, deep breath… deep breath.)

I always read these threads with “a grain of salt” and I usually try to contribute with kindness, respect and “my tongue firmly in my cheek.”… ‘Cause in the end, this is just conversation… ideas thrown about, ya’ know?… folks sayin’ this and folks sayin’ that… you know the old adage, “opinions and assholes, everybody’s got ‘em”… largely unimportant matters dressed for our entertainment in royal robes…

But this entry in the thread… this repulsive… dreadful… disgusting… terrible… frightful… shameful… shocking… awful… For god’s sakes, I’ve run out of adjectives… JOSH !!!!! HELP ME OUT !!

I mean… I have (as we all have) endured the nacelle cap agony… the hi-res vs low-res controversy… the turbo-lift debacle… but now…. NOW….

WHO THE F**K IS BARNEY GOOGLE?!? WHERE DO YOU COME OFF WITH THAT MONSTROUS CRAP???

For those of you that don’t know what I’m talking about, please read thread number… OH GOD!!! I CAN’T DO IT!!! I HAVE TO WARN ALL OF YOU… I WARN YOU THAT YOU WILL FIND IT OFFENSIVE IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD… I WARN YOU THAT YOU’D BETTER NOT TRY TO READ IT ALL AT ONCE… I NEARLY PASSED OUT FROM SHOCK AND RAGE!

(Okay… calm down…)

Please read #155…

I want this guy’s number… I want to know where he lives… Just because I’m Sicilian, I don’t want anybody to get the wrong idea… I’m just gonna stop by and talk to him… me and a couple of friends… we’ll have a a little cappuccino and some sambucca… we’ll talk… like people are supposed to talk… civilized, ya’ know?… it’ll be fine, he’ll realize he was wrong… no big deal, you’ll see… his next entry, he’ll love mini-skirts!

THANK YOU- KT #149!
My final nit lives…
(Okudas? CBS? Yoo-hoo!! )
Note that the “engine balls” are connected to the curved surfaces of the nacelle back ends via a short shaft-like extension (oh, God, here come the comments…) which is sort of visible underneath the balls. In other words, the balls do not attach directly to the curved surfaces- they are mounted on shafts. (huh, huh..ehhehh..he said shaft.)
I’m going to dig for evidence and post links.
Not to mention the beacon over the hangar doors and the five windows under it being unlit on the CG ship.
(Hope you are enjoying your trip through the Geekdom Nebula…)

#173 Be assured that in no way do I favor getting rid of the mini-skirts. I just assumed that everyone would see how ridiculous the comments were and maybe have a chuckle or roll their eyes or whatever. I guess the main point being that maybe, possibly, some of the folks are seriously calling for some unrealistic CGI changes in the episodes, so I came up with something totally off the wall. There was no intention of causing rage and seizures in the readers. Apparently my attempt failed miserably. So, apologies, and — EASY BIG FELLA. And I’m sure Roddenberry loved the skirts even more than I.

Nacelle caps again?Engine balls? Get a life.

Maybe the entire saucer rotates and bridge stays still to align the lift shaft? About as good as some of the suggestions here…

#175 - Fughetabout it !!!! Huh? Not for nothing… you were just kiddin’ around. Eh, you got me little nervous… that’s all. You!… You f**ckin’ guy! You crack me up!! I knew you’d love mini-skirts. See? One big happy familia… right?

I can’t believe how many entries there are regarding the turboshaft orientation on the the E’s Bridge. Absolutley comical. #174 said it best: Welcome to the “Geekdom Nebula”

“I knew this would all happen. Once CBS got the big things down…in would rush the minutiae. This is 5 millimeters to big, the angle of this is off by 3 degrees, etc.

I dunno…but in a way it shows their success…people are running out of stuff to bitch about.”

This all goes back to what I’ve been telling Daren — that no matter HOW GOOD the remastering is, some fans will ALWAYS bitch. You just can’t please em all. They are bunch of nit-picky, manic obsessive HARPIES!

All I can say is I hope CBS Digital’s team — when/if they visit here — pay attention to the POSITIVE and constructive comments. I know how labor intensive CGI work is…and these guys deserve our praise!

So, layoff guys!!! Who cares if the damned bridge is off by six degrees of KEVEN F-ING BACON!!! WHO GIVES A RATS ASS?? Does it make ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE TO STORY OR PLOT??? No.

There’s nothing physically possible to do about it anyway. The live action is donefore. The miniature…done for. What, you peeps want to go back and put the turbo shaft on the model off center? LOL!!!

Damn.

TTM

What, you peeps want to go back and put the turbo shaft on the model off center?

Yep, you got it

That would look dumb.

Something I was just wondering about, when they redo “The Cage” will the viewscreen images be different than seen here? Not in the later shots actually on the bridge but when they are watching them on the monitor it still shows the same space/asteroid shots from the original. Unless its been redone so close that it doesn’t look different anyway.

Just curious if they just hadn’t done that untill they get to that episode?

One last thing on the turbolift…

There is NO WAY you could move the turbolift tube on the exterior of the model because the turbolift runs through the connecting dorsal between the saucer section and the secondary hull.

Now, what do you say to that, fooooools? LOL!!!

Try to nitpick your way out of that one! LMAO!!

TTM

“Did anyone on here gulp and swallow when the Enterprise D was destroyed? On the contrary, there is your fundamental difference in approach to Star Trek.

Berman- “The Enterprise D crashing is our big WOW moment of the picture.”

Wow moment? You mean reduced to a popcorn Armageddeon type special effect that doesn’t really serve the story or propell anything forward?”

Yeah, I went “wow”.

I was like “Wow, I can’t believe they just trashed the Enterprise D in such a non-emotional, cinematically unceremonious and haphazard way. What are they going to do next kill Kirk unceremoniously?”

Wow…Rick Berman was such an idiot. My “Wow moment” lasted a few season and series too many.

Thank the Great Bird Berman is gone.

CG should be used to alter the women’s miniskirts… to make them shorter.

Seeing the Enterprise looking this good, I do not have a problem to imagine this ship could have been refit into TMP Enterprise anymore. Before, it felt like a completely different ship but now it feels like the same ship. I think it is the camera angles that make the difference.

Great work!

In response to #180

Agreed, the show is finally looking as it should have from the beginning. I’m happy, so long as they keep up this level of quality and don’t dip below it again. What they’ve achieved with the Menagerie should be their absolute minimum quality, with room to move in between mid and higher end shots.

#188

I really think we will see improvement the long it goes on. For me though, there are three huge tests coming up: The Doomsday Machine, The Immunity Syndrome and The Ultimate Computer.

Those are going to be tough episodes with a LOT of FX work.

It’ll be interesting to see how those come off.

TTM

Yes yes yes!
EXCELLENT work CBS DIGITAL!
THAT”S what I want to see.
Thankyou so much for posting those comparison pics.

This is slightly late but I wanted to point out how grateful I am to Joe for posting those wonderful fx reels. I’m up here in Canada eh? and Trek remastered is not being broadcast here (bastards!)
Anyway, I got a copy of Space Seed and being that I couldn’t stand NOT hearing that classic Star Trek sound with the previous fx reels, I threw together a NEW effects reel myself with sound.

Check it oot!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpJufG0VsuY

The Corbomite Maneuver is NEXT week folks….tons and tons of stuff to check out..

A new Fesarius

The Cube

Balok’s tiny ship

Maybe a CGI Balok on the Enterprise viewscreen?

I’ve always liked the Corbomite Maneuver so I can’t wait to see what they do.

Okay one little nitpick,

First of all this is NOT a criticism but a suggestion.
Second, I think CBS DIGITAL’s work on has been stellar. For the entire duration their sets and rotoscopings have been fantastic and from Tribbles on, the Enterprise has looked sweet.
Well done lads.
I was just thinking that it would be really nice if the nacelle caps on theshuttlecraft lit up and rotated. IT would be sweet for the following reasons…

-I’m sure if they could have done it in 1967 they would have. They are EXACT replicas of the Enterprise nacelles, just smaller.

-All of the Trek incarnations have lit up nacelles on their shuttlecraft.

-It would be a wonderful inside joke considering all the trouble they have had (and now overcome) with the nacelles in the first place…; )

-In episodes like The Galileo 7 it would be fantastic to have the nacelles caps powering down after the craft has landed( like the spinning effect at the bottom of the saucer on Forbidden Planet whey THEY landed). Even better, when they are about to take off in “The Galileo 7″ if the nacelles were powering up it would dramatically add to the drama of Spock needing to get onboard before they take off.

What do you think guys?

I was thinking the same thing.

Okay, keeping in mind that Franz Joseph’s designs, beloved as they are, are not considered pure cannon, (We’ve never seen a one-nacelle scout ship, or a three-nacelle Dreadnought), here’s one answer to the turbolift offset problem:

1. Considering the tactical necessity of always having turbolift access to the bridge ready and unobstructed, a spare car is always kept on close standby.
2. The bridge is, indeed oriented as if the viewscreen were facing forward. There’s no reason not to, after all, and every psychological reason to do so.
3. The turbolift entrance bay is oriented off-center. A turbolift shaft rings the bridge module, so that the car “on-station” can be automatically routed out of the way when a new car is incoming.
4. The “bump” directly to aft of the bridge contains an auxiliary turbolift car, which is automatically routed to the bridge entrance bay whenever the on-station car departs the bridge.

This also explains those times, such as in “Let This Be Your Last Battlefield”, where someone enters the turbolift mere seconds after a car departs only to find an empty car, rather than an empty shaft, or a long delay while another car is routed into place.